Doug Coulter's IEC Work Subject of 2022 PhD Thesis

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William Turner
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Doug Coulter's IEC Work Subject of 2022 PhD Thesis

Post by William Turner »

https://www.proquest.com/docview/2758132187

Possibilities for Inertial Electrostatic Confinement Fusion
by Jeffrey Edward Black

In addition to studying Hirsch’s devices, the 1D-3V PIC simulation was coupled to a specialized power supply model to investigate an IEC discharge configured as an active element of a feedback triode circuit. This concept can be attributed to Doug Coulter, who made claims of a greatly enhanced fusion rate with such a configuration. It is shown here that this configuration, which bears similarities to a chaotic oscillator, can be driven to produce momentarily enhanced fusion rates.
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Re: Doug Coulter's IEC Work Subject of 2022 PhD Thesis

Post by Paul_Schatzkin »

Well now, isn't this interesting.

Good to see Doug's work did not go unnoticed.

I visited Doug Coulter in 2015:

https://waterstarproject.com/doug-coult ... -in-a-jar/

And this is the discussion that ensued in these forums after I posted that account of my visit:

viewtopic.php?t=10401

And FWIW, though Doug is no longer among the living, his website persists:

http://coultersmithing.com

I am going to look at that paper and update that 2015 post.

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Re: Doug Coulter's IEC Work Subject of 2022 PhD Thesis

Post by Richard Hull »

"This concept can be attributed to Doug Coulter, who made claims of a greatly enhanced fusion rate with such a configuration". Such claims are unverified with hard data or a repeatable event when Doug was alive. However he did claim some 1 second duplication runs with no real data provided. Doug had the opportunity to show such proof, details and data. It was not forthcoming.

It seems that if this monumental event ever took place, the details, the specifics, and "the secret", just like Farnsworth's supposed, "I've seen all I need to see", went to the grave with both men...Amazing how stuff like this sorta' just happens. Utter defeat snatched from the jaws of victory.

Note: Bob Reite, a proven fusioneer, is currently in possession of the system used by Doug Coulter and seeks to reproduce "gonzo mode" events.
Thus far, no such operation has been seen or verified.

In an extended re-read of the posts by Doug and others, Doug consistently refused to released key data using the old saw, "this process needs to be protected" Those who worked directly with him were not of a sufficient level of understanding to really see and understand specifics or exactly what he was doing to even begin to reproduce what he claimed.

As many here are now fully cognizant of the details of activation, you can't just have a pull at our leg regarding 30 second activations at most any flux. Jim Kovalchick's and others queries were never answered in a scientific manner regarding Doug having to throw out a lot machine tools as being too radioactive to have around. We know that 30 seconds of exposure to even a deadly flux would only activate very short lived isotopes, assuming of decent capture cross section. Such isotopes would, overnight, die out via decay. Likewise, long lived isotopes would just not make any significant amount of radiation, regardless of cross section. Finally, only thermal neutrons would do any activation and then only of significance if intimate with the source and that which is to be activated. Thus, no focused activation. D-D fusion makes only fast neutrons. These would have to hit the wood of the walls and benches and only those would radiate, at range, a spherical ball of Thermal neutrons cut down by the inverse square law related to the distance to any machine tools. Such tools would be composed of nearly pure iron and small amounts interstitial chrome, molybdenum, vanadium, etc..

Doug never gave any data as to the readings coming off the tools over hours and days following the claimed 30 second event. He just threw them away. Not very scientific or cost effective. I look at this claim by him as pure hokum, added for dramatic effect.


Finally, related to this paper........

It is understood the paper is theoretical in nature with no specific plan to physically embody a system to test the conclusions or verify the theory.
Most theories and conjectures related to fusion, even when presented in a scientific manner, are often exhortations to others to fund an effort to create a physical manifestation so as to give the theory a boost or send it to the boneyard.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
William Turner
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Re: Doug Coulter's IEC Work Subject of 2022 PhD Thesis

Post by William Turner »

Richard,

The paper has theory and experiment. The link I shared only is a preview of the 167 pages. The full document is behind a paywall.

I didn't know Doug Coulter or Farnsworth, but I have first hand knowledge of critical information being lost or miss represented in a field similar to fusion physics. It's conceivable they had information that would make a difference for fusion.

I don't know, but I thought the full thesis was interesting. Not a silver bullet, but interesting.

Will
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Re: Doug Coulter's IEC Work Subject of 2022 PhD Thesis

Post by Richard Hull »

One wonders what experiment was done and just what occurred. One of the sentences mentioned a momentary boost in fusion. To what extent one wonders? As always, more questions than answers amid speculation. I do not poo-poo the work done as it was presented scientifically in an ordered fashion. Nothing like a healthy paywall to keep the inquisitive "unwashed masses" out of the know.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Re: Doug Coulter's IEC Work Subject of 2022 PhD Thesis

Post by Bob Reite »

When Doug first reported the up to 10,000 times Q improvement, I urged him to do nothing to his system other than add remote control so that he could safely continue the research, as the inverse square law is your friend. However from what I was able to determine, he had changed out the main freed through with a boron nitride and pyrex insulator that was not prone to arcing. So what I have to go on are the YouTube videos and some of Doug's notes. When I first reassembled the system after getting it to my location, it had been at atmosphere for some time, and there was some arcing. I was getting neutron readings about 10 to 20 times what would be expected, but only on occasion. As the system became more stable with less arcing neutron output dropped to what would be expected for 50 KV at 10 mA and a few microns of gas pressure.

The coil that was used had a self resonant value of around 1.7 MHz. I tried adding RF excitation from 455 KHz to 5 MHz. No improvement in neutron output was had. I suspect that if this was real, it was due to a parasitic oscillation, the sort of thing that anyone building high frequency tube power amplifiers is plagued with. These parasitics can be anywhere from 20 MHz to VHF.

My next step, when I can find time away from jobs that pay the bills is to try excite the fusor at 40.68 MHz. I am choosing this frequency for two reasons. One, It is close to what I calculate the deuterion transit time to be for my particular chamber operating at 50 KV, I can adjust the voltage some to tune it. Two, 40.68 MHz is an ISM frequency so I won't bother anyone "out there" by having a powerful oscillator running on that frequency.
The more reactive the materials, the more spectacular the failures.
The testing isn't over until the prototype is destroyed.
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Re: Doug Coulter's IEC Work Subject of 2022 PhD Thesis

Post by Richard Hull »

I could not imagine a better person to push high energy RF into a fusor. This was one of the key items in Farnsworth's original patent. This is worth any and all effort to investigate. Every fusor system has a natural frequency of resonance based mostly on the wiring as it exists. Parasitics are common in any high energy RF endeavor which are considered a horrible state in the RF engineering world. What it they are the key? What if simple system wide resonance is the key?

I leave this to the trained and experienced high power RF people to investigate. All the best to Bob for musing and working of this and other RF concepts related to the fusor. Put-put boat fusion at a rep rate of one blast per weak, (NIF) or 100 per hour (Helion) is no path to fusion. However, fusion done in the megahertz range with powers on the order of kilowatts might just show the way if it is a viable path.

The fusor is a gas diode due to its high field emissive geometry. (much like to old OA4 vacuum tube) Can you tune a gas diode into an RF resonance as the load? Wiring is inductive and radiative the key might be near zero circuit inductance outside of the load.

For real magic to occur, what if the fusor be it spherical or cylindrical were part of sealed microwave cavity load? This might be a bridge too far for the amateur. Cavity design might be a key part of such an effort as well. I am reminded of Jock Fugitt's design for the CBAF (now Jefferson National Lab), design for the microwave muffler resonator where nodal points produced megavolt rise at the constrictions. Jock attended one of our TCBOR meetings in the early 90's and brought one of the pure niobium resonators he worked with at CBAF, (Looks like a lumpy car muffler made up of smooth doughnuts). Jock noted that he got a resonant rise of 5 mev in the super conducting resonator. I attach one of his papers for those who wish to see how the CBAF beam line was setup.

https://www.jlab.org/div_dept/admin/pub ... 86-006.pdf

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Re: Doug Coulter's IEC Work Subject of 2022 PhD Thesis

Post by Paul_Schatzkin »

Richard Hull wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 12:35 pm I could not imagine a better person to push high energy RF into a fusor. This was one of the key items in Farnsworth's original patent.
Y'all know that the technical details are lost on me, but this strikes me as an important point – particularly now that Richard has referenced "Farnsworth's original patent."

How much has "high energy RF" been discussed in all the time this forum has been around? I did a search but the keyword "high energy RF" doesn't reveal much.

Maybe there are better keywords to work with?

I'm just wondering if there would be any benefit to identifying prior threads on the topic and culling them with links in a fresh post.

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Re: Doug Coulter's IEC Work Subject of 2022 PhD Thesis

Post by Richard Hull »

I have actually mentioned in a post in the "attic", and in other postings in the past, that Farnsworth's original design seems to have been never tested as displayed in the patent. In all my discussions with all the worker bees, they never mentioned any RF input of oscillator adjustments. I only mention this here as relates to Bob Reite's work with the "gonzo system". Of all the people here, to my knowledge, he is the only trained, working, RF engineer in our galaxy of fusioneers. He might be the right man with the right talents and skills to "monkey" with the RF ideas around the fusor.

It is to be remembered I couldn't care a fig about useful power ready fusion. I viewed such fusion, as too far off and headed in the wrong direction to a dead end, scientifically, engineering wise and economically. I came to do fusion in a fusor to get neutrons for experiment, safely, inexpensively and for no other reason!

The discussion around what might be termed 'Real Fusion" that have made the forums here, now and in the past, have pretty much been pipe dreaming, ideas put forward that no amateur might ever attempt due to costs, complexity, and zero skill sets on the part of many of those espousing ideas. In some cases I have used my term, "all of this is just wind across the decks" for some of the most wild ideas by those incapable of more than just ideas not backed by knowledge or the ability to do.

These forums have stood fast over the years for "doers" and have included some vibrant and useful discussions on all manner of fusion topics.
The dream of furthering Farnsworth's dream would require more than those first few years would hope for. You have to first gather a cadre of people who are interested in fusion, but don't know much about it. Then of those you must ferret out those with skills to have a chance at doing fusion. Those who succeed, know fusion to an ever increasing degree, but only if they stick with it. Only then can real talent shine through and the more dreamy thoughts gel into improving it. Improving it out of pocket by even the best and most directed of us is the real dream.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Re: Doug Coulter's IEC Work Subject of 2022 PhD Thesis

Post by Bob Reite »

Go to viewtopic.php?t=14021 "Fusor as an Oscillator....A serious Discussion" for the prior discussion of this topic.
The more reactive the materials, the more spectacular the failures.
The testing isn't over until the prototype is destroyed.
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Re: Doug Coulter's IEC Work Subject of 2022 PhD Thesis

Post by Peter Schmelcher »

Bob 40MHz seems high for any fusor geometry that I have simulated. I purchased Simion which is an ion simulation tool about 10 years ago when it cost $1300.
Doug was very excited before I told him about the software limitation of no ion-to-ion charge interaction. Doug at the time believed the ion charge was the oscillator feedback method.
Simion was originally an open-source DOS program and later became a windows program. Over the years many work arounds have been created to add features for example RF modulated electrodes and statistical ion to background gas interaction. It is a useful tool that should reduce the number of physical fusor build iterations.
Creating high voltage, high power, high frequency RF is a pain in the wallet/bottom.
Cheers-Peter
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Re: Doug Coulter's IEC Work Subject of 2022 PhD Thesis

Post by Richard Hull »

Indeed! High power, high voltage, tunable RF energy just rolls off the lips like some sort of given, a minor detail. Not so! This is why a working RF engineer is needed to work this angle. Plain electronic engineers and digital electronics folks need not apply, and are smart enough to obey the sign, Danger RF Energy - Keep Out!

My 12 years at Tesla coiling at 16kw is not the same and accords me only enough knowledge to realize I'm not even the guy to get involved here. At the same time, I am most interested in the effort.

Just wondering....RF is RF but would this be looking at the usual sinusoidial RF or a positive or negative DC RF rep rate or a modulated RF-DC arrangement? I guess this comes in on the theory side of the effort and is a tough think through before any electronics is assembled.

Hydrogen thyratrons, in general and in most apps at high powers, are limited to the 1khz-10khz range of switching high power, high kv DC. (1-5us pulses). These might not even enter into this arena involving ion transit times.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Re: Doug Coulter's IEC Work Subject of 2022 PhD Thesis

Post by Bob Reite »

Doug was thinking that it would not be sinusoidal. Maybe a sawtooth, but any repetitive waveform can be described as sine waves and their harmonics. Yes, it will have a DC Bias from the main HV supply so that the main grid never goes positiive.
The more reactive the materials, the more spectacular the failures.
The testing isn't over until the prototype is destroyed.
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Re: Doug Coulter's IEC Work Subject of 2022 PhD Thesis

Post by Peter Schmelcher »

I investigated building a broadband HV RF amplifier. The deal breaker for me was that broadband magnetics don’t exist for the frequency range of interest and then the high turns ratio needed drives a stake through the heart of high current low voltage semiconductors. Doug used vacuum tubes and the higher plate voltage signal slightly reduces the transformer turns ratio. As I recall his amp had 4 tubes in parallel plus he had spare tubes. Doug constructed his own high voltage scope probe which I personally would not trust. A resistive divider just does not have the bandwidth required so he probably couldn't accurately measure the fundamental or any parasitic waveform amplitudes. To be fair, there are not any good scope probe options. I don’t remember anymore how Doug coupled the RF into his fusor but would be shocked if it wasn’t some form of tesla coil resonance.

Today, silicon carbide FETS are available with drain voltages of 3KV, switching in 30ns, and cost about $25 but quickly changing the voltage of the gate capacitance is a bear. Below a few megahertz I expect SiC FETS would make a good RF driver for a tesla coil.
Cheers-Peter
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Re: Doug Coulter's IEC Work Subject of 2022 PhD Thesis

Post by Bob Reite »

Doug's high voltage scope probe, which i"m in possession of is frequency compensated. The first amp Doug built was with TV sweep tubes, we had many a discussion about it. He was trying for a range of 500 Khz to 5 MHz. I did not follow up with that, but worked on a broad band amp in the same frequency range using a pair of 4-125A tubes. They can take more abuse than sweep tubes. This amp driven by a GR bridge oscillator is what I did my null result tests from 455 KHz to 5 MHz. I will have to change the input and interstage circuits to go higher in frequency. Yes, broad band RF is hard! Yes, easier to do with solid state, and while LDMOS technology is pretty rugged, I need high voltage at relatively low current, not the other way around.
The more reactive the materials, the more spectacular the failures.
The testing isn't over until the prototype is destroyed.
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Re: Doug Coulter's IEC Work Subject of 2022 PhD Thesis

Post by John Futter »

From my memory
I helped Doug with the wideband high voltage probe, and suggested the 4-125A tubes i have a lot of these, when you are pushing them too hard-voltage wise and or current- ie Anode glow is a good proxy for abuse and time to turn things down a bit without destroying it.
Doug had it setup as a relaxation oscillator ie the fusor was part of the feedback network. This approximates to a big bag of nefarious variables which Doug and I had many discussions on--as to what was actually happening. I will attempt to get the paper mentioned and put it up on Dougs site that Bill pays for and I try to Administer
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Re: Doug Coulter's IEC Work Subject of 2022 PhD Thesis

Post by Anze A Ursic »

This may be a silly question but when we're discussing "high-power" RF within the context of fusors, what power levels are we talking about? kW? MW? I have experience running microwave electrothermal thrusters using a 1kW magnetron but I'm curious if 1kW even scratches the surface of what is considered high-power.

Anze
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Re: Doug Coulter's IEC Work Subject of 2022 PhD Thesis

Post by Richard Hull »

I would imagine a single KW or less would do the trick in a fusor the size Doug had if this idea is to work at all on that scale. For now it is all just pie in the sky. I imagine we are just looking to boost fusion over and above that common to the electrostatic fusor and not create a fusion power system.

Neutron flux levels at the intensity Doug claimed would be dangerous to the casual experimenter. As such, I remain doubtful in the absence of details.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Re: Doug Coulter's IEC Work Subject of 2022 PhD Thesis

Post by Bob Reite »

I agree, we don't need megawatts. The DC input to the main grid is 500 watts. If it models like an old school AM broadcast transmitter, in theory I only need 250 watts. I probably should take the time to vary the ion grid voltage for different main grid conditions and make a "load line" chart of Dougs fusor as a triode.
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The testing isn't over until the prototype is destroyed.
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Re: Doug Coulter's IEC Work Subject of 2022 PhD Thesis

Post by John Futter »

4-125 A s are good for about 300 watts plate dissipation down hill in a Northerly behind a tow truck but they have some quite clever specs not on the spec sheet.
they will switch many kVs if you do not put too much current through, ie 20kV is not out of range so Doug was using these to excite the fusor / Gonzo mode.
And no Doug was not using 20kV I have used these tubes to switch 20kV to charge ion transport plates
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