Universal Voltronics XRC-60-60N digital control

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vlad_klanoff
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Universal Voltronics XRC-60-60N digital control

Post by vlad_klanoff »

If someone is running this power supply using serial communications, do you mind checking and telling if you get actual temperature readings on /RTH command ?

Thank you !
vlad_klanoff
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Re: Universal Voltronics XRC-60-60N digital control

Post by vlad_klanoff »

Is anyone at least using this PS in any form ?
vlad_klanoff
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Re: Universal Voltronics XRC-60-60N digital control

Post by vlad_klanoff »

OK, seems I'm officially stuck - trying to resurrect this PS for a few days and now have no idea what to do... Even after one of forumers kindly provided the manual (unfortunately the manual doesn't have internal schematics and but contains a few (at least) of obvious mistakes instead) I can't get it running...

First I tried the analog control - at the beginning it looked promising, but my excitement quickly turned into disappointment after I couldn't get any output, even filament...

After power on LEDs look more-less normal (the descriptions in the manual are not always clear):

Alive - blinking
3 - mA in Reg (a bit suspicious)
4 - kV in Reg (a bit suspicious as well)
5 red - SS en ? (I found two LEDs marked as 5 - one red, and another one is green at HV indication)
6 - Inv CC - have no idea what is this, but don't like the name
7 - SS conf - have no idea what is this
8 - Low end CC - have no idea what is this
11 - User Rst - (even more suspicious)

At the same time no faults LEDs at all, and status OK for all safety loops (I closed the contacts on the interlock connector)

After enabling HV and emission current I hear a relay click and LEDs:

turn off:
5 red - SS en ? (I found two LEDs marked as 5 - one red, and another one is green at HV indication)
7 - SS conf - have no idea what is this

turn on:
5 at HV indication
12 - HV en
13 - Fil on Cmd

So far so good (except no other LEDs at HV and filament indication are turning on), but a couple seconds later I hear another relay click and LED 5 at HV indication turns back off.

I even connected a regular halogen 12V 50W lamp to the filament output in case if the PS can sense it's not connected to a tube, but it didn't change anything. And as I already have mentioned no signs of any voltage neither filament nor HV.

I restored back the mods I made for the analog control box and tried to set kV/mA using DACs, but it didn't change anything...

So I connected to RS232 port and tried the pure digital control. Again I got very excited at the beginning - the PS is communicating properly, but the behavior in general is the same as with the analog control. With the digital control I get an access to more data, but don't see anything unusual. Of course, it reports 0 on HV, emission and filament.
Only suspicious reading I get from /RTH command (get HV brick temperature) - it reports -273C. I know it's pretty cool at my basement now, but not to such an extent. I don't see the temperature sensor wires coming from the HV module, so possibly my PS doesn't have it at all.

By the way, first I was quite confused with the J3 DB9 connector - was sure it's RS232 port, and one picture at the manual says the same, but another picture calls it "Interlock connector". Quick check confirmed that it's the interlock indeed...

I will be extremely grateful for any suggestions/advice/thoughts etc, and especially for any additional tech info on this PS besides of the initial release of the manual I already got !

Thanks,
Vlad
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Richard Hull
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Re: Universal Voltronics XRC-60-60N digital control

Post by Richard Hull »

Universal Voltronics loves to load their HV supplies with interlocks, safety lockouts, plugs that demand that the entire system be hooked to their original externals with cables made by them. With the coming of microcontrollers, Programmers and safety engineers can have 50 different lockout capabilities to assure no one will die who uses their unit with all components connected as demanded. This includes a tube head cabinet lockout, filament known current range sense, etc.,etc., etc.

This also precludes some future hacker like you or me diddling around in their product and killing themselves. All the very best on making this thing go.
You are what the old electronics writer, Don Lancaster, called a VCIW. (Voice Crying In the Wilderness.)

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
vlad_klanoff
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Re: Universal Voltronics XRC-60-60N digital control

Post by vlad_klanoff »

As I have mentioned before, my biggest suspicion is about LED 11 - User Rst. In case it's the "User Reset" it's very strange to have this signal constantly on - I can easily see that the reset state prevents the PS from fully functioning. Also LED list from the manual doesn't mark this LED as "Nor On" (I assume it means "ON in normal conditions") - so it doesn't suppose to stay on... Biggest problem here - the manual doesn't mention "User Rst" anywhere else, and I don't see such a signal on the external connectors, so I have no idea what is generating this...

By the way, in case if someone needs it - to connect to RS232 I used J6 connector on the main control board (the top one). It's 10 pin IDC type connector, only 3 pins are needed:

9 - ground
3 - Tx
5 - Rx

9600, 8, 1, no parity

While NOT in the remote mode (LED 41 is off) most commands are still working, except SHC and SFC. To get the PS into remote mode I just shortened pins 51 (gnd) and 50 (remote control) on J5 on the customer interface board. Not sure if it's a correct way to do this, but LED 41 goes on and the PS begins to accept all commands through RS232.
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Re: Universal Voltronics XRC-60-60N digital control

Post by Rex Allers »

Hello Vlad,

I see you have put your first and last name in the Real Name field, but our forum rules say it should also be your Username. You can edit it and your existing posts will remain under that edited username.

Here is my saved description of how to change your username...

---
Changing your Username

Here's how:
  • Login to the board
  • click your current username in the upper-right of the main page and select User Control Panel from the pull-down
  • In the tabs at the top, select Profile
  • At the left column, select Edit account settings
  • Edit the Username: field to be your full name
  • Type your password in the Current password: field (near bottom of page)
  • Click Submit button at bottom
  • Note: After you change Username, the new name becomes what you use to login to the Forum. Your password should remain the same.
I also suggest adding a Location to your profile. It can help to know generally where a member is in the world to adjust a response to them. I have used my City and State, but if you are worried it could be more general -- just State, something like Central USA, just your Country is better than nothing.

Adding a Location
(Skip the first 3 steps if you are already in the Profile section from doing the Username update.)
  • Login to the board
  • click User Control Panel near the top of the main page
  • In the tabs at the top, select Profile
  • At the left column, select Edit profile
  • Edit the Location: field
  • Click Submit button at bottom
This Location information will appear in the right column, under your name, when you post.

---
Sorry, I'm just being a pedant to our forum rules.
Rex Allers
vlad_klanoff
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Re: Universal Voltronics XRC-60-60N digital control

Post by vlad_klanoff »

Hello Rex,

the forum moderators can correct me if I'm wrong but I don't see anywhere in the Fusor.Net Policies and Procedures that usernames need to be changed if they were registered before the 151214 update - the rules talk about new accounts only...
vlad_klanoff
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Re: Universal Voltronics XRC-60-60N digital control

Post by vlad_klanoff »

Forgot to add about the RS232 control - no special software necessary, I just use a simple terminal app (puTTY in my case, but it doesn't matter).

Of course with a little effort one can write a fancy app fully automating a fusing process :)
Matt_Gibson
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Re: Universal Voltronics XRC-60-60N digital control

Post by Matt_Gibson »

The difficulty that you’re having is why I gave up on commercial power supplies and went the homebrew route. I was spending more time obsessing over my Glassman than actual fusion. I also was leading others down the rabbit hole with me. :-)

-Matt
JoeBallantyne
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Re: Universal Voltronics XRC-60-60N digital control

Post by JoeBallantyne »

Even Paul Schatzkin who started this site and for many years used an alias as his username has changed his username to his real name.

So, the policy applies to all, and it is really not that hard to comply.

You should change your username.

Joe Ballantyne.
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Re: Universal Voltronics XRC-60-60N digital control

Post by JoeBallantyne »

As far as getting your supply to work, I suspect Richard has hit the nail on the head. There are probably multiple interlock signals that must all be set to the correct state, before the supply will output anything. Most likely you are missing one or more. I also recall reading of supplies that would not output HV if the HV output lamp on the front panel was burned out... which seems kind of nuts, but actually sort of makes sense.

Joe.
vlad_klanoff
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Re: Universal Voltronics XRC-60-60N digital control

Post by vlad_klanoff »

Actually I just passed first relatively significant milestone - managed to get the filament working !
Seems my suspicion about Reset is correct. I completely disconnected the customer interface board from the main control board and the LED "User Rst" turned off - almost for sure the signal comes from the customer interface. Of course, no "OKs" for safety loops at the moment. And got red "PS fault" LED, but cleared it with /SCL command. After that the /SFC 1 command (Filament On) turned on my halogen lamp connected to L-C contacts !!!
Can't get actual HV yet - probably need to restore safety loops at least.
Hopefully will locate the source of the reset signal and everything starts working after that...
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Re: Universal Voltronics XRC-60-60N digital control

Post by vlad_klanoff »

JoeBallantyne wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 9:24 pm There are probably multiple interlock signals that must all be set to the correct state, before the supply will output anything. Most likely you are missing one or more.
Unfortunately at the moment I can't imagine what could I miss - it's only two connectors and I believe I understand each signal pretty well by now. Unless, of course, the manual provides a wrong info on some of them - very possible.

At least now I have something to work on.
Matt_Gibson wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 9:12 pm The difficulty that you’re having is why I gave up on commercial power supplies and went the homebrew route. I was spending more time obsessing over my Glassman than actual fusion.
If I get this PS running in general, everything else should be very straightforward and painless. I really like the pure digital control - very easy to automate...
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Re: Universal Voltronics XRC-60-60N digital control

Post by Matt_Gibson »

There’s also the possibility that something obscure is faulty…

My Glassman was easy to understand, from a high level, but got more and more wonky as I went deeper down the rabbit hole with it. Each test showed what was to be expected, yet the thing just didn’t want to work as advertised. Too many variables and Glassman wouldn’t help beyond recommending a $2k overhaul.

Good luck! If you can get this thing working correctly and reliably, the rest will be a cake walk.
vlad_klanoff
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Re: Universal Voltronics XRC-60-60N digital control

Post by vlad_klanoff »

Still can't believe but I managed to get some HV !

Using my highly professional hi-tech setup I located the signal that was asserting that RST state and removed it from the connector. Still don't know yet how to turn that signal off properly (will investigate later) but at the moment I have full control of the PS using RS232 connection.
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vlad_klanoff
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Re: Universal Voltronics XRC-60-60N digital control

Post by vlad_klanoff »

vlad_klanoff wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 6:28 pm Still don't know yet how to turn that signal off properly (will investigate later)
Discovered I was very close to the solution earlier - I had the suspicion on that specific contact, but just couldn’t imagine that someone can design active low logic level being low without any input… Had to add a resistor on PCB - not very elegant solution but couldn’t think about anything better.
Also not sure if there is any nice way to switch control between remote (RS232) and user interface connector without adding a couple wires and a switch - very possibly each PS is hardwired from the factory at specific way.
Did more testing, but didn’t want to go above 3 kV - need to use proper wiring/ground etc. Everything seems working fine and relatively accurate. For example, if I set 1.250 kV, actual output is 1.255 (of course my voltmeter could be not 100% accurate as well), but the PS itself reads and reports back 1.170
Haven’t tested a current reading yet because of the lack of proper wiring at the moment.
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Richard Hull
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Re: Universal Voltronics XRC-60-60N digital control

Post by Richard Hull »

I am glad you got the thing going.

Working with modern microcontrollers the old 0volt/5volt logic it is incredibly easy to get a great forced, active logic low using a 1kohm resistor to ground for fabulous noise immunity or even a 10k ohm to ground with still good immunity. Of course, resistor pullup's have been the norm looking for a ground signal to function. The Arduino can establish an input with a form of internal pullup and has a command that tells the input to apply a form of internal pullup to logic "1". Still, if you wish to have an active 1 to do something on any Arduino input, it is wise to put a 5-10k ohm resistor to ground on that input pin.

Regardless, of tri-state logic, in all control inputs on working gear receiving outside-world inputs, these inputs must be active 1 or 0 and relatively noise immune. Only poor design would allow for other than the above.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
vlad_klanoff
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Real name: Vlad Klanoff

Re: Universal Voltronics XRC-60-60N digital control

Post by vlad_klanoff »

The problem is that the Rst signal is active 0 and wasn’t pulled to 1 as you can expect. In fact, it wasn’t pulled at all and had 0 on it, so was providing more-less constant reset while unconnected (and probably being very sensitive to any electrical noise).
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Richard Hull
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Re: Universal Voltronics XRC-60-60N digital control

Post by Richard Hull »

Yes, they should have actively pulled it down with a resistor for noise immunity or up with a resistor, as needed to satisfy their desired "non-reset" condition permanently awaiting a solid reset signal on the input to override their forced non-reset state.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Reyes Alcaniz
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Re: Universal Voltronics XRC-60-60N digital control

Post by Reyes Alcaniz »

Hello everyone, currently I think I have the same problem as Vlad. Could you send me the manual or some more information?

Thank you very much in advance.
Reyes Alcaniz
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Re: Universal Voltronics XRC-60-60N digital control

Post by Reyes Alcaniz »

Always say MPPC generador safety loop 1 open
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