Cyclotron type fusion reactor using colliding ion beams of opposite potential

This forum is for other possible methods for fusion such as Sonolumenescense, Cold Fusion, CANR/LENR or accelerator fusion. It should contain all theory, discussions and even construction and URLs related to "other than fusor, fusion".
Post Reply
James_Hannon
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:23 pm
Real name: James Hannon

Cyclotron type fusion reactor using colliding ion beams of opposite potential

Post by James_Hannon »

Iv'e had this idea recently and I wanted to share it with y'all. This is a purely theoretical concept so criticize me as much as possible. The reason for building one of these is for lots of wonderful neutrons.

How it works is that you would have two deuterium ions beams of opposing polarities being shot into a strong magnetic field. The two ion beams would be of opposing directions to each other and they would be slightly off axis of the magnetic field line so that the ions rotate around the the magnetic field. The ions are shot into the magnetic field and orbit in opposite directions which causes them to collide with such power that they undergo fusion. Then the fusion fragments are high energy so they fly out of the magnetic field to a disposal system.

Please tell me if this is a good idea.

Concept design :
Cyclotron fusion reactor.pdf
(21 KiB) Downloaded 456 times
User avatar
Rich Feldman
Posts: 1470
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:59 pm
Real name: Rich Feldman
Location: Santa Clara County, CA, USA

Re: Cyclotron type fusion reactor using colliding ion beams of opposite potential

Post by Rich Feldman »

What's your intended magnetic field strength, ion energy, and radius of curvature?
[edit] That's taught in college physics, and I see you're 14 years old. Internet, e.g. hyperphysics.com, can probably teach you what you need. [\edit]

How and where are the ions accelerated?

I just noticed that you specified ions of opposite charge, which will indeed counter-rotate in a magnetic field.
(They orbit _within_ an extended magnetic field, not _around_ a bounded magnetic field.)

Am not familiar with ways to generate negatively charged atomic ions in plasma phase.
(negative atomic ions are common in electrolytes, e.g. Cl- in our bodies.)
All models are wrong; some models are useful. -- George Box
James_Hannon
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:23 pm
Real name: James Hannon

Re: Cyclotron type fusion reactor using colliding ion beams of opposite potential

Post by James_Hannon »

Answer 1: The reason why there is no specifics with the design is because the design is not a actual design for someone to build something out of but just a diagram for someone and is supposed to help someone understand the concept. But I can tell you the deuterium ion beam energies need to be to where their obits intersect and collide with such energies that they fuse and the magnetic field needs to be strong enough to confine the deuterium ions but weak enough for the fusion fragments to be expelled out of the field.

Answer 2: The ions are created and accelerated using ion guns (sorry I didn't include it into the diagram)

Answer 3: I have heard of negative ions being used in neutral beam injection systems for ITER but I really don't know much about systems for creating negative ion beams. I think they can be made by reversing the polarity of an ion gun but that's very very theoretical.
User avatar
Richard Hull
Moderator
Posts: 14976
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 9:44 am
Real name: Richard Hull

Re: Cyclotron type fusion reactor using colliding ion beams of opposite potential

Post by Richard Hull »

Protium, deuterium and tritium with one proton like to be positive ions a lot more than having a second orbiting electron forced on them. It can be done I am told. I don't need 'em and as such never investigated.

From wiki

Hdrogen negative ions (H−) are formed by the dissociative attachment (DA) of low-energy electrons e (slow) (Te ~ 1 eV) to highly excited molecules H2 (v” > 5), which are vibrated by the impacts of high- energy electrons e (fast) (Te > 15 eV) in the plasma.

Carl Willis once told me they are indeed found in limited amounts in a working fusor. Outside of chemistry they are produced only in a plasmic environment.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Patrick Lindecker
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:47 am
Real name: Patrick Lindecker
Location: Maisons-Alfort France

Re: Cyclotron type fusion reactor using colliding ion beams of opposite potential

Post by Patrick Lindecker »

Hello ,

I'm not an expert but let's suppose that D- and T+ are injected at 50 keV in opposed direction, inside a magnetic field to maintain them, there will be interactions between them:

* coulomb collisions which rapidly will make thermalize the two D- and T+ flows (each one with a nil mean speed),

* fusions (but much less than coulomb collisions, according to respective cross sections),

* neutralisation of D- and T+ by detachment of the electron of D- towards T+. The neutrals D0 and T0 produced could possibly be ionised probably in D+ and T+ by collisions with the ions, but they will more probably be lost.

If a stable "soup" of electrons + D+ and T+ is possible at high energy (according to the Saha law), because the recombination speed is very low compared to the ionisation speed, I don't know if it is possible to have a stable "soup" of D- and T+. However it seems difficult due to the fact that the attachment process (to produce D-) is less probable than the ionization process (to produce D+), as the first process needs more energy that the second according what I saw about ITER (moreover the way to obtain D- is particular). But who knows?

You could deep this good idea but I'm not sure that the different cross sections of the interactions with negative ions will be easily available (if they exist).

Patrick Lindecker
James_Hannon
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:23 pm
Real name: James Hannon

Re: Cyclotron type fusion reactor using colliding ion beams of opposite potential

Post by James_Hannon »

So do y'all think this device could produce neutrons or maybe even more than a fusor?

[edit]Even if you were somehow able to make a beam of negative deuterium ions.[edit]
James_Hannon
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:23 pm
Real name: James Hannon

Re: Cyclotron type fusion reactor using colliding ion beams of opposite potential

Post by James_Hannon »

Upon further thought, I think you can swap out the negative deuterium ion system for just an electron gun and use the electron-deuterium ion collisions to heat the plasma to fusion temperatures.

How do y'all think of this hypothesis?

Edit: Actually no this wouldn't work because the electrons would orbit around the magnetic field at a different distance from the deuterium ions so just use negative deuterium ions if you're reading this
User avatar
Joe Gayo
Posts: 404
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:34 pm
Real name: Joe Gayo
Location: USA

Re: Cyclotron type fusion reactor using colliding ion beams of opposite potential

Post by Joe Gayo »

Fusion is a fun problem. Big science has been slow to solve it practically and it's exciting as the underdog (individual inventor/scientist/engineer) to look for a "magic" bullet that unlocks the problem.

I want to encourage you to keep thinking and hypothesizing. Test your ideas theoretically and/or experimentally, but as important (or more) educate yourself on the attempts of others. Start with project Sherwood and learn what has been tried (what might have been missed, or miss-interpreted... scientists make mistakes) and then form your own ideas. You will find that with Fusion many intelligent people have worked on the problem and many good ideas have been had. Maybe we already have the answer, maybe the answer isn't yet in the public domain, or maybe we are not close. Regardless, follow the footsteps of those that have come before, then theorize your path.

Joe
Researching Fusion since the 6th Grade
User avatar
Richard Hull
Moderator
Posts: 14976
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 9:44 am
Real name: Richard Hull

Re: Cyclotron type fusion reactor using colliding ion beams of opposite potential

Post by Richard Hull »

Joe is spot on! Read the book "Project Sherwood" by Amasa Bishop. It is filled with early ideas and experiments by folks who had no pre-conceived notions due to what had been done before. So, they plunged into the doing and the failing. It is the ideas that are tested via the doing that are worth anything. We like to think that there must be a winner at some point.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Post Reply

Return to “Other Forms of Fusion - Theory, Construction, Discussion, URLs”