Space X conversation Xfer

Announcements and items of immediate importance.
Post Reply
User avatar
Richard Hull
Moderator
Posts: 12181
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 1:44 pm
Real name: Richard Hull

Space X conversation Xfer

Post by Richard Hull » Mon Jun 15, 2020 4:27 am

The covid talk got co-opted so, moving my thoughts here.

I have real issues with the touch screen controls on the dragon capsule. I was rather sickened to see them. No direct wired connection to anything via a toggle switch!
I hope they have two easily reached and readily replaceable spares of all that modern electronics on board. If not, just wait.......

Every switch to every function is a tortured trail of pure silly-con. Thousand of links silicon-to-silicon junction in micron scaled complete devices.

There are rad hardened chips, yes! There are shielding efforts, probably....

Complexity breeds increased failure issues. Rad hardening works in nuclear attacks. Shielding works well of earth because of the atmosphere.

What do we know happens when a 2 Tev cosmic ray proton streaks through the atmosphere.... multiple stars of hundreds of fresh very slow 200meV pions, muons, neutrons, etc. Such, would be, and is the thing that happens in a 1/4" thck lead plate in space. Nuff' said. Oh, and rad hardened IC's, a joke, once you press the "Delete 100 miles of atmosphere button". Toggle switches with hard wires to actuators, etc., are far more impervious to such vagaries.

Lets play bombard the electronics with un-attenuated TeV, BeV, and MeV protons, helium nuclei, neutrons and even more massive occasional heavy nuclei and a multiplicity of scattered high energy secondaries that scatter about the interior of any craft after starring in the structure of the craft.

To believe that top level electronics firms are sitting on their hands is stupid. Analog devices are just one company making ultra to hyper expensive "S, (space) related electronic components which only government and Musk can pay for.

I'm just sayin'..."Got Spares on board??"

https://www.analog.com/en/technical-art ... tions.html

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

User avatar
Rich Feldman
Posts: 1303
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:59 pm
Real name: Rich Feldman
Location: Santa Clara County, CA, USA

Re: Space X conversation Xfer

Post by Rich Feldman » Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:31 pm

Do those glass cockpit panels have Tesla part numbers on the back? :-)
It does seem like Marketing people (NASA as well as Space-X) contributed to the design.

What does the Dragon "Pilot" have to do, other than count as a passenger?
Same argument was made in STS days:
pilots and their seats and control panels and life support are a waste of space and mass.

We got rid of windows in elevators long before there was any space program.
Will same ever happen to rocket capsules?
Commercial jetliners could get a fuel economy boost by eliminating all cabin windows, as they have done by adding winglets.
All models are wrong; some models are useful. -- George Box

User avatar
Frank Sanns
Site Admin
Posts: 1692
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2002 6:26 pm
Real name: Frank Sanns
Location: Pittsburgh, PA USA

Re: Space X conversation Xfer

Post by Frank Sanns » Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:37 pm

I am with you Richard. No touch screens for me. Sometimes if my hands are too wet or dry, they don't even work on my phone screen. Sometimes you miss by a mm and get the wrong action. With all of the vibration on takeoff, try to hit the correct moving abort dot on the screen.

Even without the radiational risks of some inadvertent screen action, no thanks. I would not trust my life to that.

User avatar
Richard Hull
Moderator
Posts: 12181
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 1:44 pm
Real name: Richard Hull

Re: Space X conversation Xfer

Post by Richard Hull » Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:18 pm

I forgot to state that I am not suggesting a panel with 400 toggle switches. A few override switches might be nice like for oxygen, pressurization, batteries, major fuel systems and steering motor controls. They have for many years been able to do stuff from the ground as well, which I am sure still is the case. Critical events of great timed precision must be turned over to the ground control and, or on board computer operation.

The dragon is a low earth shuttle box and its time in space is limited and I imagine they are willing to roll the dice on lack of direct pilot/commander interference and turn all systems over to ground control except docking and that may soon leave the human interface.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

Jerry Biehler
Posts: 900
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:08 am
Real name:
Location: Beaverton, OR

Re: Space X conversation Xfer

Post by Jerry Biehler » Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:27 pm

There is an array of switches below the touch screen for critical functions. But both screens can do the same functions so even if one screen died you still have the other. So first earth would have to lose control of the capsule, then both screens need to die. At that point so many things have gone wrong you are probably toast anyways.

Post Reply