Hysol 1C resit for hermatic seal?

Every fusor and fusion system seems to need a vacuum. This area is for detailed discussion of vacuum systems, materials, gauging, etc. related to fusor or fusion research.
Post Reply
Kajodurresit
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat May 27, 2023 2:20 am
Real name: Kajo Durresit

Hysol 1C resit for hermatic seal?

Post by Kajodurresit »

I am using Loctite Hysol 1C resin to repair a X-ray tube by replacing Be window. This window will be adhered using this resin. Anyone has any experience about using this resin for Hermetic seals because after evacuating the tube I have to seal it.

thx
Jerry Biehler
Posts: 975
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:08 am
Real name:
Location: Beaverton, OR

Re: Hysol 1C resit for hermatic seal?

Post by Jerry Biehler »

It's used a lot for fixing leaks and stuff. They used to use similar epoxies to hold on mirrors on laser tubes but they are several magnitudes higher pressure than a x-ray tube. Eventually it will probably need repumping, you might get a little more life with a getter in the tube. A better option might be soldering the window to the glass with indium.
Kajodurresit
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat May 27, 2023 2:20 am
Real name: Kajo Durresit

Re: Hysol 1C resit for hermatic seal?

Post by Kajodurresit »

I will appreciate people having experience with gettering and indium soldering to send important points in these regards. I never have done these.

thx
Kajodurresit
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat May 27, 2023 2:20 am
Real name: Kajo Durresit

Re: Hysol 1C resit for hermatic seal?

Post by Kajodurresit »

Jerry Biehler wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 3:44 am It's used a lot for fixing leaks and stuff. They used to use similar epoxies to hold on mirrors on laser tubes but they are several magnitudes higher pressure than a x-ray tube. Eventually it will probably need repumping, you might get a little more life with a getter in the tube. A better option might be soldering the window to the glass with indium.
Beryllium window already has been brazed to a metal ring (most likely steel ring). I need to adhere this metal ring to the copper head of the XRF tube not glass. Indium soldering seems a good suggestion. Is it because of indium low degassing or low meting point or both which makes indium a good option for this purpose? What indium percentage of soldering wire is the best for this purpose? I guess the rest of the wire must be lead, right?
User avatar
Dennis P Brown
Posts: 3147
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 10:46 am
Real name: Dennis Brown

Re: Hysol 1C resit for hermatic seal?

Post by Dennis P Brown »

Please don't copy and paste people's post - we can read them ourselves and manage to determine what you are responding to without that quoting ;) Thanks
User avatar
Jim Kovalchick
Posts: 716
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:00 pm
Real name:

Re: Hysol 1C resit for hermatic seal?

Post by Jim Kovalchick »

Hysol 1C is a great seal material. Just don't exposed it to plasma. Otherwise, it will outgas horribly.
Aleksa Djokic
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2022 2:22 pm
Real name: Aleksa Djokic

Re: Hysol 1C resit for hermatic seal?

Post by Aleksa Djokic »

In the first post, you mentioned X ray tube, and now, XRF tube? Which is it? If its a window of an XRF detector, then epoxy is more then enough, that's how most of them are bonded. If its for X ray tube, don't bother with epoxy, the tube must operate in high vacuum environment, in the range of 10-7/10-8mBar, to achieve this level of vacuum, high temperature baking is required.
User avatar
Richard Hull
Moderator
Posts: 14975
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 9:44 am
Real name: Richard Hull

Re: Hysol 1C resit for hermatic seal?

Post by Richard Hull »

All good indium solders at low temp are only tin-indium solders. 50:50 will adhere to glass. Pure indium with the correct flux is best and stands moderate high temperatures better. All are amazingly low melting point. Go to the indium corporation website for all the tech notes on indium soldering.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Aleksa Djokic
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2022 2:22 pm
Real name: Aleksa Djokic

Re: Hysol 1C resit for hermatic seal?

Post by Aleksa Djokic »

Indium as a vacuum seal must be used differently from non-vacuum work, flux is not tolerable. We use indium as a UHV vacuum seal in image intensifier tube production, its not so easy. The alloy of Indium-Tin has a melting point of 117c, which is not that far from 157c of pure indium, I would prefer to use pure indium. Only high purity/oxide free indium will wet glass under compression or mild heat. If compression bonding is not an option, the liquid phase bonding is very difficult. Aside from needing to evaporate additional layers (Ni, Cu, Ag, Au etc) to allow for wetting of indium to the surface to be bonded, much higher temperatures are needed, ballpark 320-380c (above 360c indium oxide is removed). There is also a intermetallic formation problem, but that is another story...
Kajodurresit
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat May 27, 2023 2:20 am
Real name: Kajo Durresit

Re: Hysol 1C resit for hermatic seal?

Post by Kajodurresit »

Vacuum I have is about 9x10E-7 torr. Bonding will take place between copper and the steel ring holding Be foil (actually I have cut Be window out of a broken xrd tube along with the metal around it). By X-ray tube I meant XRF x-ray tube. Hysol 1C will not expose to plasma but it may expose to indirect X-ray or secondary electrons.
Aleksa Djokic
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2022 2:22 pm
Real name: Aleksa Djokic

Re: Hysol 1C resit for hermatic seal?

Post by Aleksa Djokic »

The outgassing of the epoxy will not allow for such high vacuum, it might work for a day or so, arcing will eventually destroy it. If you have another XRF laying around, check the composition of the two steel rings, if they are the same, you could find a jewelry shop and ask them to laser weld the two pieces(might have to explain the importance of consistency to achieve a vacuum tight weld).
Aleksa Djokic
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2022 2:22 pm
Real name: Aleksa Djokic

Re: Hysol 1C resit for hermatic seal?

Post by Aleksa Djokic »

Just realized that the tube flange is from copper, so no go with the laser welding, Indium bonding is probably your only option, or brazing another steel ring on the copper flange, if the tube construction allows for such high temperatures. Compression bonding might be doable, liquid phase probably not, indium will not wet stainless or kovar, additional layer of Ni,Cu,Ag,Au is required for it to wet the surface.
Kajodurresit
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat May 27, 2023 2:20 am
Real name: Kajo Durresit

Re: Hysol 1C resit for hermatic seal?

Post by Kajodurresit »

I have seen some epoxies are mention could be used for Be windows mounting on small UHV portable xrf X-ray detectors (Amptek detectors for example). So epoxy sealing for UHV applications can not be that bad.
Aleksa Djokic
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2022 2:22 pm
Real name: Aleksa Djokic

Re: Hysol 1C resit for hermatic seal?

Post by Aleksa Djokic »

Yes, as I've mentioned above, they indeed are used for that exact purpose, but here is the thing, that is only true for systems that have constant pumping, not sealed systems. You might as well try it out, I'm guessing that the arcing will first start, so the filament of the tube might survive if you notice any problems. If you have a vacuum system, why not make a simple test jig with a simple ion gauge to test the outgassing? There are some very cheap BA glass type ion gauges on ebay and BMI surplus, sealing the inlet of the tube with epoxy and measure the outgassing rate should be straight forward. I would do it myself, the only problem is I have no way of obtaining the 1C epoxy...
Post Reply

Return to “Vacuum Technology (& FAQs)”