Reading th' perfesser's new book. He's done it again!

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Re: Reading th' perfesser's new book. He's done it again!

Post by Paul_Schatzkin »

Unfortunately, I know have two parallel threads running on two separate fora on these topics.

Richard, in particular, I encourage you to look at the documents embedded in this post:

https://www.ttbrown.com/forum/viewtopic ... 842#p21842
Jan Lundquist wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2023 3:35 pm The level of detail that is given in the report, about each experiment conducted by Sud Oeste, should satisfy even Richard Hull's critical standards, but the really good stuff begins on page 107 with Cornillion's 1955 Intelligence Report to Sud Oeste. On P111, he goes into great detail about his first meeting with Townsend:
Dr. Brown looked over Dr. Rose’s paper and smiled saying; “we have made enormous progress since this report was written”, however with respects to my inquiry he told me that he was not at liberty to discuss the issue at that exact moment. Without being specific he explained that he was under oath with official organizations not to discuss the subject with anyone. He did mention that he would inquire about the possibility of collaboration and that I should call him the next day. I told him I was surprised to hear about the security issues because Shank and Rose had informed me that the research had been abandoned. He told me that it wasn’t their fault because they themselves were unaware of Brown’s recent activities.
Here is the document Jan Lundquist is referring to:

https://ia902602.us.archive.org/16/item ... Report.pdf

It's an interesting read, translated by a (now deceased) French Canadian contributor to the original TTBrown.com fora.

It's a lot to chew on.
.
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Re: Reading th' perfesser's new book. He's done it again!

Post by Richard Hull »

I have always felt that any such experiments as might be suggested by any of Brown's devices might not even be valid on earth, even in a vacuum!
It would be all too easy to test this idea just outside the space station in a vacuum and a weightless state. Will the thing actually move with a continuously measurable thrust and at what energy efficiency?

I realize the balance pendulum in vacuo in circular motion looks good. But it would be nice to see a single naked miniature craft released on its own outside the space station actually move and accelerate.

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Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Re: Reading th' perfesser's new book. He's done it again!

Post by Dennis P Brown »

Regardless of the merits of T.T. Brown's work (or more recent efforts by others), we shouldn't lose site of the fact that getting an overview of this person's work and the excitement it generated among some people is certainly a worthwhile thread here.
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Re: Reading th' perfesser's new book. He's done it again!

Post by John Futter »

Has all the hallmarks of Cold Fusion
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Re: Reading th' perfesser's new book. He's done it again!

Post by Richard Hull »

At ESI, we had full access to all of this Brown information. Charles Yost was ever hopeful, I was under impressed. I was a "show me" guy. Charles knew this and relied on my forcing him into a pair of gravity boots on occasion. I have always felt that, 1. If their was anything to this electrogravitics and, 2. That the government was doing clandestine research into it that, 3. We would see something now from this effort, as opposed to burning 6 tons of LOX and Hydrazine per second over a period of minutes to loft 1 ton of material into low earth orbit.

Now, I do think there is a process to do this without burning rocket fuel. We just don't have a clue how to begin to do it! I also believe fusion will one day be available to us for energy, but likewise, we do not have a clue how to begin to do it!

We remain at this stage of the game, hunter gathers, but on a technological scale that far surpasses our Neanderthal ancestors. To stay warm and move about in our world we still must cast about and mine and drill from the earth all of the pre-cocked, preloaded, energy guns, where we need only pull a trigger to get all the energy we need for a modern society.

We used to gather wood, use a simple source of ignition and keep warm at night and cook our food, just throw on more wood to keep it going. We advanced to gathering coal, stuffing it into a boiler to create steam to keep warm and power railroads to deliver products from far and wide. This same steam drove industry to create a myriad of goods and products to clothe and feed us. Oil was refined to turn into products from Vaseline to gasoline. Gasoline explosions in a reciprocation engine powers cars and industrial machines. Using uranium mined from the earth, we do controlled fission to once again, boil water to turn generators to power electrical grids along with a diminished use of coal, oil, and natural gas. Our machines went from steam powered to oil and gas powered to electrical powered. However, we still must boil water to make steam to make electricity!

All, repeat, all of our energy is hunter gatherer based and utilize pulling of simple triggers on preloaded guns to create what would be runaway energy sources, were we not able to control them and bend them to our use. Even wind and solar are hunter gathered from the environment. No magic here, there never was! Just moving from picking up sticks in ancient ages to stay warm and cook food, to mining Uranium for the controlled release of stored nuclear binding energy from atoms formed in colliding neutron stars billions of year ago. We are nothing more than ever more learned hunter gatherers!! Even fusion, be it from the sun, (wind, hydro-electric and photovoltaics), to our successfully doing fusion at some future date, will again prove we are nothing more than hunter gatherers taking deuterium from the oceans and making Tritium in nuclear reactors.

T.T. brown and all those looking for anti-gravity systems, electrogravitics, space warping techniques, are trying, but failing. Look to the aliens for the answers, they have obviously been around a lot longer and have "the good stuff", but will they share it? Or, do they dare share it? What must they think of us? We are certainly fun to watch, I am sure.

The real thing is, again, if we have crashed craft can we figure out what makes them go?? Have we made a deal with them of sorts?

I am not a conspiracy theory guy, however, I do think they are here, have been here, and are now ever more present. Why? You fill in the blanks.

Curious? Got guts? Watch the documentary "phenomenon" On you tube it is every bit as engaging and as good as The planet of the humans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0Kr1TwKhQk&t=1435s

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Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
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Re: Reading th' perfesser's new book. He's done it again!

Post by Dennis P Brown »

Even thermo-nuclear fusion would still be just "Hunter -Gathering" of energy thanks to the "Big Bang" (which was neither, by the way.) That source of energy was baked in by that process (besides providing what matters most - matter. ;) )
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Re: Reading th' perfesser's new book. He's done it again!

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This book adds to the knowledge of the man T.T. brown. But from what I have read adds no new data on his supposed process. Instead, it proves he failed and never had anything of any value, whatsoever. Just like Farnsworth on fusion. Another epic attempt with an epic fail. All good ideas and processes yet net fails from the get-go. Did both Brown and Farnsworth failed to understand? No! They understood in their own minds all too well as they pushed forward. Alas, in these two specific venues, they failed. They carried to their graves nothing but ideas and feelings. There were no solutions.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Re: Reading th' perfesser's new book. He's done it again!

Post by Dennis P Brown »

Thermo-nuclear fusion w/o an atomic bomb is hard (here on Earth.) Theories of Gravity are hard (that actually make sense and match observation) - through maybe not as hard as fusion. Still, these experimenters tried and frankly, that can provide a purpose that keeps one achieving, growing and trying - certainly a good epitaph for anyone. Farnsworth will remain famous for what he did achieve; T.T. Brown has at least achieved a book on his life.
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Re: Reading th' perfesser's new book. He's done it again!

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Much more has been written about Brown thanks to the UFO and outer space travel interest by the DIY community. It takes a deep dive to find out just how much interest there is in this area by a few serious folks and a sea of dabblers. Regardless of any supposed lift experiments, no one is keeping records of mass lifted versus energy demanded to lift, be it ion wind or supposed non-wind lift.

I found a you tube site where one investigator sounded as if he was getting lift that was not ion wind related lift. The next words out of his mouth was that he was set up to measure the voltage and current to determine the lift energy and then says he was not really all that interested in doing that at this moment in his research as he wished to use his time to follow his efforts with different mechanical configurations.

A subsequent video by this guy updated us that he and others working with him had applied for a patent after having deep pocket funding really boost their efforts and.......You bet! He could not really go into details on their related patent due to their money sources having economic interests in the invention that needed protecting. Another rabbit hole opens.........

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Re: Reading th' perfesser's new book. He's done it again!

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Dennis P Brown wrote: Thu Apr 13, 2023 10:59 am Even thermo-nuclear fusion would still be just "Hunter -Gathering" of energy thanks to the "Big Bang" (which was neither, by the way.) That source of energy was baked in by that process (besides providing what matters most - matter. ;) )
So, what? The 'Big Bang' was... neither big, nor a bang?

Kindly elaborate. With attributions, where applicable.

Thanks.
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Re: Reading th' perfesser's new book. He's done it again!

Post by Dennis P Brown »

The creation of the Universe occurred in a 'volume*' many, many orders of magnitude smaller than a proton; further, being a non-solid (but all energy/space), sound was impossible. So, the "Big Bang" was neither big nor a 'bang' (i.e. sound.)

The term was coined by someone who asked one of the scientist proposing the idea at a conference about the theory; this person was highly critical of the concept and used the term in a dismissive and sarcastic manner - but it stuck.

As the Universe expanded and 'cooled' lowering the energy and this allowed the Higgs field to 'condense'. This in turn created rest mass (for some types of particles - the ones we care about most.) Those electrons and quarks (now protons/neutrons) are what all matter is composed of today and what does 'matters' (as does the Higgs field.)

* talking about a volume for the initial genesis of the universe is a dangerous simplification and one not really applicable relative to three-dimensions and one that doesn't really describe something so 'out-of-understanding' using current physics. But there is no simple way to define the concept other than using that term. That the Universe is now expanding afterwards indicates the beginning was extremely small - again, a dangerous word for such a complex thing. The real problem as most would surmise is density - far beyond anything we can understand and far hotter still. Further, issues of space and time also cloud the mix. Frankly, not something anyone could hope to model using any current physics (after the creation - something like 10^-24 seconds later - models start to work or so they claim.)

I have my own ideas on how to deal with those initial issues (a density far, far beyond what is needed for a black hole) but that is 'rabbit hole' concept at the moment and I'll pass on any details - certainly for now. ;)

Of course, wiki has a section on the "Big Bang" and that includes far more details and actual numbers for some of the processes.

Aside: as for extraterrestrials, the 'Dark Forest' concept is enough to hope no Aliens do 'discover' us.
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Re: Reading th' perfesser's new book. He's done it again!

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Matter, by its nature, goes chemical on all planets where the temperature allows it. Chemicals can store energy just as radioactive atoms store energy. With chemicals, it is 100% electronic in nature. A few eV here a there in chemical compound atoms. A few million eV locked into the nucleus of some few heavy elements. All of this allows for hunter gathering and exploitation to obtain that energy.

Now, the fusion from the sun did a lot of photosynthesis in plants and the meager few eV compounded into complex carbonaceous molecules. This is truly a pitiable amount of stored chemical energy. Still, this is a cocked energy gun. The problem is you must gather 10-15 pounds of wood, peat or coal to assemble quintillions of these carbonaceous molecules to make a usable fire to cook and keep warm. A small spark or match can pull all the triggers of the pitiable low eV molecules adding up to a significant energy release over the life of the fire. Civilizations demanded millions of tons of coal be mined in the early 20th century.

Nuclear energy, stored in the heaviest of natural elements, contains millions of eV stored in each atom of uranium U235. However, you only need a very small amount. All it takes to release all the energy capable of destroying a city and kill hundreds of thousands is a source of slow neutrons. Such a neutron source is as easy as making a torch to light wood or coal. The neutrons will come if you just move two pieces of U235 of a critically computed mass towards one another. Now this instant release is great and just the ticket if you are in the mass killing and laying waste business.

To control the nuclear fire and not burn up your fuel in an instant, you just move enriched U235 close enough to not explode but to create megawatts of heat energy to boil water. You can easily quench or control the nuclear fire by interposing neutron absorbers in and among the U235 fuel. Easy as pie. You still have to hunter gather the Uranium from mother earth just like you did with wood, coal and oil. We've got it all figured, kinda', sorta, we hope, maybe....

The upshot is we would not be here if we did not hunter gather, kill for food, defense or sometimes kill for a fuel and food rich territory via simple good old fashion conquest. Hey Ma look at us.....Top of the world, Ma,....Top of the world!

Conquer gravity? HA! We can't control fusion beyond our ability of using fusion, already in hand, for a global nuclear exchange among nations.
Gravity? Look to the aliens, inter-dimensionals or time travelers....They move about with ease.

We, Brown, Naudin, Bahnson, got nutten'. (Unless we figured it out from crashed craft or were given it in some deal made by the devil with our wonderful, ever caring government.) There are a million ways to chase this rabbit down a myriad of real and conspiratorial rabbit holes.

Fooey! Screw it and all of them. I am well fed, well housed and am happy as a clam.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Re: Reading th' perfesser's new book. He's done it again!

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Dennis P Brown wrote: Mon Apr 17, 2023 4:30 pm Aside: as for extraterrestrials, the 'Dark Forest' concept is enough to hope no Aliens do 'discover' us.
I have no idea what you are talking about.

--P
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Re: Reading th' perfesser's new book. He's done it again!

Post by Richard Hull »

You are not up to date on a number of actual events that have taken place of the third kind. Burn off a little life. It is worth while.
James Fox is the Paul Schatzkin of things that have happened which captured his attention. No one touches his work. He started years ago but his masterful documentary 2020 documentary put him on the map. His latest documentary is earth shattering. One dare not skip around lest one miss key moments. His documentaries use the famous voice of actor Peter Coyote as our docent.

The podcast (second below deals with his 2022 release.)

First "The phenomenon". Documentary

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0Kr1TwKhQk


Second The podcast related to the newest documentary of the third kind that devoted its entirety to the one Varginiah, Brazil, UFO crash case.
"point of contact"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rrHV3Kczx0

There is no dark forest. Note, the second is a podcast related to his latest effort, person-to person with explicatives not deleted. Real conversation

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Re: Reading th' perfesser's new book. He's done it again!

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The "Dark Forest" idea of extraterrestrials:

"According to the theory, the universe is a dark forest and every civilization is a silent armed hunter who is treading very carefully without making any noise. The hunter cannot make his position known and if he does encounter anyone — a predator, another hunter or even a harmless herbivore — the only option he has is to eliminate them."

In other words, not unlike the Europeans discovering the America's, the more primitive civilization tends to get annihilated by the more advance civilization - relative to our past history, not always by intention.

The issue is that any species that can travel between stellar systems would make short work of us if so inclined. Better not to discover this the hard way by broadcasting our presence. But in Star Trek, most aliens are friendly and just trying to mind their own business ... not necessarily what evolution tends to shape species to do for survival. Of course, Star trek isn't exactly realistic even for human interactions.
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We Have Met The Phenomenon...

Post by Paul_Schatzkin »

... and they is us.

I have finally had a chance to go through The Phenomenon from begining to end (though not all in one sitting) to see what I might have missed skipping through it the first time ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0Kr1TwKhQk ).

The part that gets my attention is around the 53-54 minute mark: Various reports of UFO's hovering around nuclear arsenals that culminate with somebody posing The Visitors' rhetorical question,
What are you people doing with nuclear weapons?
If I was a space alien, that's probably what I'd be wondering, too,

That segment reminds me of the premise of the Star Trek movie First Contact released in 1996: The crew of the Enterprise (Picard edition) follows The Borg back in time to the year 2063, when a mad scientist named Zefram Cochrane (Jamie Cromwell) is about to test the first Warp Drive. The Borg wants to stop that from happening, because figuring out Warp Drive will send a signal to the rest of the galaxy that humans are ready to take their place in the cosmos. The Borg doesn't want the humans forming any intergalactic alliances.

This might be a stretch, but hearing that guy ask "What are you people doing with nuclear weapons?" makes me wonder if the 'signal' imagined in that Star Trek movie wasn't sent out on July 16, 1945 – from a deserted litttle place in New Mexico called "Alamagordo."

I imagine the Superior Forces in the galaxy detecting whatever eletromagnetic pulse rippled through the galaxy that day and thinking "Jeezus, look what the apes have got their hands on now!"

And then I think that maybe the supposition is not so absurd – because of something I read in the New York Times recently:
What Happened to All of Science’s Big Breakthroughs?

A new study finds a steady drop since 1945 in disruptive feats as a share of the world’s booming enterprise in scientific and technological advancement.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/17/scie ... ption.html

Since 1945? Ya don't say...!? What happened to all the Big Breakthroughs?

I got two words for you: Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Let's review: We start detonating A-bombs in 1945. Visitors show up to find out whathefuck, and... well, that's enough of that! No more scientific breakthroughs for you, Polanski!

The Phenomenon movie makes a pretty compelling argument – but, of course it does, that's why they made the movie. It's not like they're going to go to all that effort, find all that evidence, track down all those witnesess, compile all those anecdotes and land on "nope, nothing to see here."

I'm not sure what to make of the 'Dark Forest' theorem. Clearly, we have announced our presence. They have assessed our capabilities. And they have not wiped us out (yet?). So maybe the visitors are more patient than they are paranoid.

It seems all they've done is prevent us from doing any more harm to ourselves – or the galaxy – than we've already figure out how to do.

So: nothing for you today, Polanski.*

And for starters, no nuclear fusion or gravity control.

--PS


*That's one of the more memorable lines from an episode of 'Barney Miller' that I worked on in the 1970s:
https://amz.run/6eIx
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Jeezus, what have the apes got their hands on now?!?!?
Jeezus, what have the apes got their hands on now?!?!?
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Re: Reading th' perfesser's new book. He's done it again!

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No fusion for us? We have had it since the first H bomb back in the early 50's. The earth is now littered with thousand of fusion energy systems just itchin' to be set off over your favorite city. The aliens didn't prevent that! They didn't give it to us either. No! We got fusion! We've had fusion for years and we know how to use it.

If anything, the aliens are not letting us control it for the common good! They are keeping that secret away from us. Far too universally stabilizing for our society that likes to go to war over energy resources. Why? We are far too much fun to just sit back and watch like some TV serial. They are transfixed by our caprice. I'll bet they really started a lot of watching after the 20 kiloton drops on Japan. They figured it would all be over soon. But no, the second season aired in the early 50's with the 20 megaton devices using fusion. Surely this would be the last season of "The Earth Show". The third season opened with political and military one-upmanship with MADD resulting in a stagnation of those megaton exchanges the audience was waiting for.

Now they are monkeying with the actors in the drama, the military. Fliting about military aircraft, nuke bases and interrupting war games in a manner that the government can't really coverup.

If the aliens gave us anything it was the seed of life on earth. They do not help us in any way technologically, nor have they ever. Oh they might take a few of us from time to time and monkey with our DNA to see what the future brings provided enough of their interactive episodes yield in the way of adventure in their little screw with the species program.

They are amused by us as they may never have had, or have evolved out of the need or desire for totally independent singular action by the individual in that the concept of sudden love or hatred driving one to help, aid, build, kill, destroy with malice at a moments notice is our fate. It is our caprice and individualism that keeps 'em coming back for more.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Re: Reading th' perfesser's new book. He's done it again!

Post by Bob Reite »

A big drop in breakthroughs since 1945. I don't think so. The transistor was not invented until 1947. That was a major change. Then the laser in 1960. While I don't consider the laser as much of a game changer as the transistor it is still a pretty significant inventon.
The more reactive the materials, the more spectacular the failures.
The testing isn't over until the prototype is destroyed.
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Re: Reading th' perfesser's new book. He's done it again!

Post by Dennis P Brown »

Well, like all speculations, the idea that UFO sightings are space aliens has no real proof or even believable evidence; however, like people saying the Moon landings are fake, such ideas are possible just not something I'd waste my time on arguing. Not saying impossible. Certainly, faster than light speed can be done so it is possible for such beings to come here, I guess. General Relativity allows FTL but not sure the energy costs make it possible for any species that can't create large amounts of antimatter (as in kilograms.)

As for controlled Fusion producing net energy, I am fairly confident it can be done and in a time frame more like twenty years. Now the realistic aspect - it will be net energy (not giga-watts) only and far away too expensive to be useful at all. Thirty billion plus (2023 dollars) for a proto-type unit that can maybe create a little more than an order of magnitude more energy than it uses. If built, such a unit would be so radioactive that no one would want to get near the device not long after it started running. Bottom-line, the Stellarator concepts works for holding a reactor level plasma so that device could do real fusion energy but not something anyone would want to pay for.

As for the Dark Forest, well, again - uses concepts of real evolution, mix in current human actions and then a lot of speculation. Then that concept is believable but hardly a theory that I'd worry about. If true, really nothing we could do to save ourselves anyway so just not gonna sweat it.

As for negative gravity - highly unlikely It is possible. I do, however, believe that such a physical effect of 'space' is possible. It does have a possible theoretical bases (maybe I'll speak on that concept at the next HEAS.) The bad part is I don't have the foggiest on how it could be achieved only what conditions would produce it.

As for the falloff of major scientific theoretical breakthroughs on how the Universe really works it is true that this progress has stagnated for sure. But our innate nature is still the exact same as our ancestors from 100 k years ago so none too surprising that we have hit brick wall - for now, at least (I'd blame Field Theory but that does offer a possible 'Way forward'.)

Much as the Zebra 'Cop' in the Far Side Cartoon where it is seen to say to the herd, as a few Lions devoured their kill of a fellow Zebra, "Nothing new here to see - move along."
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Re: Reading th' perfesser's new book. He's done it again!

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Bob, I was about to note the transistor and all resultant chips, microchips, microcontrollers, etc as a fruit that has only the transistor as its major quantum theory based progenitor. That was a big deal. Its net result is size reduction coupled with massive, almost incomprehensible electronic density per unit volume. This results mostly in vast computational power and control capability in near microscopic volumes.

However nothing touches the discovery of radiation, x-rays, and the electron all within 5 years 1895-1900. Its fruits rained down from 1900 to 1940 during a period that changed the entire breadth of most sciences.

Relativity was just a series of new concepts with application only in those rare instances where common Newtonian mechanics slips and slides.
Quantum theory only developed from the radiation discovery as the NEW ATOM was explored 1900-1940. Only fine touches added over the last 80 years.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Re: Reading th' perfesser's new book. He's done it again!

Post by Dennis P Brown »

Of course - this being a fusor site - we skipped the greatest development of the sciences for the later part of the 20th centaury: the ability to control, and modify DNA (and RNA) to order via CRISPR. An amazing process that enables knock out and direct editing of the very code of these molecules of life. Also, our ability to exploit designer viruses for these purposes as well. This has absolutely revolutionized our understand of all aspects of cellular function as well as achieved major breakthroughs in healthcare.

This advancement has been the equivalent of, at the least, what the transistor did for EE.

Certainly, any Aliens would be surprised by our 'quantum jump' in Biological understanding of cells and DNA/RNA over these last thirty years - that is, if any are watching.

Aside: yes, there are dangers and down sides. That is true of all 'advancements' by humans. From the proto-humans developing the first cutting tools and later, fire to their descendants creating thermo-nuclear bombs, ICBMs and all manner of amazing methods to end our species reign over the Earth. As I mentioned previously, nothing to see here.
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