"That's All I Need To See"

Reflections on fusion history, current events, and predictions for the 'fusion powered future.
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Paul_Schatzkin
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"That's All I Need To See"

Post by Paul_Schatzkin »

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In the "New Video from Helion" post

viewtopic.php?t=14697

... we got to talking about the 'apocryphal event' that I wrote about in my Farnsworth bio, The Boy Who Invented Television.

For the sake of anybody not familiar with this tale, I have taken the liberty of posting posting Chapter 19: That's All I Need To See" on the Farnovision.com website. You can read it in its entirety here:

https://farnovision.com/wp/all-i-need-to-see

I'll add another note that is not included in the chapter:

I first met the family of Philo T. Farnsworth in the summer of 1975, when I was chasing the apparently ridiculous idea that I could get 'a movie for television about the boy who invented it' off the ground. Silly me.

I had already had my own 'apocryphal' event, that afternoon in Santa Cruz California, which story I've told here:

https://waterstarproject.com/the-point- ... cruz-1973/

So I was already as interested in fusion in 1975 as I was about the story of inventing television. I think the Farnsworths – Pem, Philo III and Kent – were kinda wary of that interest if not downright suspicious, and they didn't have much to say about the subject.

Fast forward about 14 years. It is now the spring of 1989 and I am camped out in the basement of Pem Farnsworth's modest (to put it mildly) home in Salt Lake City with she and Kent Farnsworth putting the finishing touches on what would be Pem's own personal account of her life with Philo, the biography entitled Distant Vision.

When we got to the 'fusion' part or the undertaking, Kent and I could both tell that there was something Pem wanted to talk about, a story that she seemed reluctantly to tell.

Finally, Kent sat his mother down, we turned on a tape recorder, and after a bit of settling down and warming up, she told us the story near the end of Chapter 19.

My point here is: I had known the Farnsworth family – and worked intimately with them – for nearly fifteen years before Pem was willing to share this story.

The family was very protective of Farnworth's fusion legacy. There are myriad other accounts of what happened during those years from ~1958 - 1966. Some are more inclined to take the 'hard-nosed scientific' approach. But I prefer to go with the story closest to its heart.

--PS
Paul Schatzkin, aka "The Perfesser" – Founder and Host of Fusor.net
Author of The Boy Who Invented Television: 2023 Edition – https://amz.run/6ag1
"Fusion is not 20 years in the future; it is 60 years in the past and we missed it."
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Richard Hull
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Re: "That's All I Need To See"

Post by Richard Hull »

If Phil saw something that could have made it happen, he jealously and purposely took it to his grave. That is that and nothing else. The science and the facts of the entire period are now fixed forever. Another failed fusion effort regardless of any and all events.

Pem's account, again, is that of an unscientific, lay observer married to a man she loved and had faith in all her life and that is, indeed, a matter of the heart.

One may take credence of Pem's account in a scientific manner if one wishes. Or, one may take the word of the worker who had to clean up after Phil the next morning to repair the instrument panel and get Wayne Frame in the machine shop to get to work making a new inner dynode for the pit fusor.

The pit was made just prior to Hirsch arriving (1963 summer hire as he worked to finish his doctoral work, and again, in 1964 as a full time hire). This early pit fusor had very crude, passive ion optics (ion guns - probably canal ray optics). This was the image of the giant warp core fusor with huge glass insulating arms. According to Meeks this was a terrible unit and was rapidly dismantled and outfitted with his, (Meeks), special ion guns (pigatron type), used also on the Cave fusor. These were the guns that really improved fusion within the inner dynode and to do this, they had to be babied over an hour or more into matched beams each having its own extractor power supply. Meeks was assigned to the pit fusor with Bain and Haak until, 1965 when he was dragged out of the pit into the Cave assigned to Hirsch. This was when Steve Blasing was transferred out of the tube lab to work in the pit with Bain.

Farnsworth could not have taken the time to adjust the complex ion guns. I doubt if he ever could or did. All noted that Farnsworth was not part of any day-to-day operations in the fusor lab area. He was a rarity in the lab. This tells me that the pit fusor he brought up to work in a few minutes for Pem was the short lived warp core pit fusor with terrible more passive ion optics requiring no real preparation as would be demanded of the advanced Meeks pigatron guns in the later pit fusor.

Finally no glass bell jar fusor, according the Gene Meeks, ever hit more than 10e3 - 10e4 D-D fusion neutron output! This was from 1959 thru early 1963. Hirsch noted to me that when he came for that first summer in 1963 "Richard, these guys were still working with bell jar systems!" Hirsch did note that they had a pit fusor system using a bizarre looking spherical stainless steel system in operation that was doing a small amount of D-D fusion later in the summer.

I attach two images of the first pass pit fusor, (warp core) and the later far more advanced modified pit fusor. one can readily see the huge complexity around the later fusor's gun system.

Richard Hull
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First pass pit fusor - 1963 (warp core)  Very impressive to say the least.  Simple passive ion optics
First pass pit fusor - 1963 (warp core) Very impressive to say the least. Simple passive ion optics
Later far more complex ion optics 1966 pit.  A nightmare to prep, but worth the effort as its output was far more than any pit device prior to this version.
Later far more complex ion optics 1966 pit. A nightmare to prep, but worth the effort as its output was far more than any pit device prior to this version.
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Re: "That's All I Need To See"

Post by Paul_Schatzkin »

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Thanks for those details, Richard.

When I met Gene Meeks in Fort Wayne in the spring of 2001, he spoke of the fusor in the second image you attach here. That is the one he called 'Mark 2 Prime' (I think).

And that's the one he was speaking of when he said to Kent and I, "we were close, very close."
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Fusor01-IMG_0114.jpeg
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Here is Gene with the last extant Farnsworth-era Fusor, one of the Hirsch / cave designs, that is now at the archive in Los Angeles.

--PS
Paul Schatzkin, aka "The Perfesser" – Founder and Host of Fusor.net
Author of The Boy Who Invented Television: 2023 Edition – https://amz.run/6ag1
"Fusion is not 20 years in the future; it is 60 years in the past and we missed it."
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Richard Hull
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Re: "That's All I Need To See"

Post by Richard Hull »

The image you show is the last cave fusor. This was a Meeks/Hirsch design and is easily identified as a cave fusor. The cave fusor bore no resemblance to any pit fusor. It was unique. It was also the best functioning fusor for which hard note-booked data exists. 10e10 TIER! You had the right man on hand, as Meeks was its creator while working in the cave with Hirsch. I have listened to the audio tapes with the exuberance of Kent and all present about a restart. Gene sighs throughout realizing and advising that it would take a bunch of money to not only get this fusor working again, but to advance on the effort left dormant in 1968. Gene knew!...While the others present, as always, dreamed of what might be.

The Mark II prime was Gene Meeks "personal" machine which he claimed outshone all of the others, both cave and pit. I attach the image of Gene with his mark II prime. A careful eye will see that this dangerous to operate reactor body was a relic of the old cave warp core fusor that he took out of stores and put his super pigatron ion guns on. Gene was in one of the office rooms that Hirsch secured for Gene's use as he was approved to go off on his own. No shielding, but truly far enough from any normal human being to allow for the inverse square law to save their lives. Gene did get irradiated but the time of irradiation seems to have been short enough to avoid any issues. However, he was warned about not operating it without permission once his huge numbers were reported. Gene felt this was the machine that was close. I think he was just excited due to his numbers. It was not "close", it was just the sum of their knowledge packed into one last effort by the "best pair of hands" on site. I think, at this time, Hirsch saw the writing on the wall and marked time until he secured the AEC job in early 1968. Gene had his own ideas and was allowed to still work and pursue his ideas in his own area.

Of course, Farnsworth was 2 years long gone out to Utah singing a siren's song to members of his old team to join him in his proposed PFTA venture.

Three members associated with his old team would move to be part of PTFA which would not last one full year. Two would stay and be reassigned a ITT to retire with full benefits from ITT. Hirsch would start a stellar career at the AEC.

So ended the abortive effort at ITT, begun with hope, but with fusion physics and nuclear ignorant team members led by Farnsworth who had "his ideas" and dreams. The team would learn over three years 1960-1963 via osmosis, OJT and self-direct learning a great deal of fusion physics not found in college curricula, via the hands-on imperative. Farnsworth's dreams were not realized and pretty much out of the window by 1963.

When you work with someone you respect, who has a dream and yet see him in a mode of self-deception on the scientific front so far as data is concerned, you can still respect him for his past work, but at some point, you have to move on in a cold and dispassionate manner with real science that your employer, ITT, was expecting you to advance and is paying you to produce.

Richard Hull
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[Perfesser's Note: Richard, I have taken the liberty of adding a close up of the heart of the 'warp core' design to your post here so that others can see the resemblance more readily]
[Perfesser's Note: Richard, I have taken the liberty of adding a close up of the heart of the 'warp core' design to your post here so that others can see the resemblance more readily]
Screenshot 2022-12-23 at 1.51.01 PM.png (118.47 KiB) Viewed 4265 times
Constructed by Gene Meeks in late 1966, this would be the last fusor built and run in 1967 as the ITT effort was funded through to FY 1968.  By mid-1967 ITT announced it would not fund the effort next year and the team was not doing much beyond Hirsch working on the final published report.  The AEC had just refused to get involved.  It was a dead time from summer 1967 to the end in late spring 1968.
Constructed by Gene Meeks in late 1966, this would be the last fusor built and run in 1967 as the ITT effort was funded through to FY 1968. By mid-1967 ITT announced it would not fund the effort next year and the team was not doing much beyond Hirsch working on the final published report. The AEC had just refused to get involved. It was a dead time from summer 1967 to the end in late spring 1968.
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Paul_Schatzkin
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Re: "That's All I Need To See"

Post by Paul_Schatzkin »

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Richard Hull wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 12:11 pm I attach the image of Gene with his mark II prime. A careful eye will see that this dangerous to operate reactor body was a relic of the old cave warp core fusor that he took out of stores and put his super pigatron ion guns on.
That was the first thing I noticed, though I did not make the immediate association with the 'warp core' device.

My understanding - based mostly on the few photographs I can find - is that one difference between the "Farnsworth" and "Hirsch" designs is the orientation of the hemisphere seal: On the "Farnsworth" designs, the hemispheres are sealed horizontally, as in the 'warp' and 'pit' iterations that are illustrated above. The "Hirsch" designs seal the sphere vertically, as seen in the 'last fusor' in the photo with Gene in 2001 and also this photo, with a fusor that has never been specifically identified:
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MEEKSANDUNKNWONFUSOR.jpg
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I don't know if the orientation of the center seal makes a whole lot of difference, but I am somewhat surprised to learn that the Gene's "Mark II Prime" was, as you say, based on the "Farnsworth" design - even if it was the much maligned 'warp core' model.

What I'd really like to know - what we'll probably never know - is what sort of cathode that 'Mark II Prime' unit had inside.

--PS
Paul Schatzkin, aka "The Perfesser" – Founder and Host of Fusor.net
Author of The Boy Who Invented Television: 2023 Edition – https://amz.run/6ag1
"Fusion is not 20 years in the future; it is 60 years in the past and we missed it."
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Richard Hull
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Re: "That's All I Need To See"

Post by Richard Hull »

The image with Gene in your post is the very first cave fusor. I personally, from an aesthetics point of view and appearance, think this is the most attractive of all fusor's assembled at ITT. Small, trim and neat with good ion optics (pigatrons).

There were between 7 and 8 different cave fusor setups in rapid succession. Hirsch kept Gene hustling and Wayne Frame's shop making new fusor bodies from Chicago Float's spherical float bodies. Hirsch tested out more unique designs and tested more variations of same than all the other work done prior to his arrival. between 1965 and 1967. The fusor that was at State Street and now in California was the very last iteration cave fusor. I should have asked Gene, but I think it might have been the one Gene worked with for two years in Utah under Andy Gardner. Gene did mention that the fusor in Utah never breathed a single breath of D2 or any fusion fuel after it left ITT. It was operated as a demo system for student training in vacuum, ion optics, etc. As we all know, Hirsch absconded with the AEC desert cart fusor body. It is seen below during my 1999 visit to Hirsch DC office for the personal interview.

Richard Hull
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Robert Hirsch with his AEC demo fusor in 1999.  It was a permanent office fixture.  He was rightfully proud to display it.  I bet it stirred more than one query by any who might visit him in his office.  What a campfire tale it could make, too!
Robert Hirsch with his AEC demo fusor in 1999. It was a permanent office fixture. He was rightfully proud to display it. I bet it stirred more than one query by any who might visit him in his office. What a campfire tale it could make, too!
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Paul_Schatzkin
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Re: "That's All I Need To See"

Post by Paul_Schatzkin »

Richard Hull wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 6:25 pm
I think it might have been the one Gene worked with for two years in Utah under Andy Gardner. Gene did mention that the fusor in Utah never breathed a single breath of D2 or any fusion fuel. It was operated as a demo system for student training in vacuum, ion optics, etc.
That sounds right to me, too.

--P
Paul Schatzkin, aka "The Perfesser" – Founder and Host of Fusor.net
Author of The Boy Who Invented Television: 2023 Edition – https://amz.run/6ag1
"Fusion is not 20 years in the future; it is 60 years in the past and we missed it."
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