Orbitron

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Joe Gayo
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Orbitron

Post by Joe Gayo »

https://www.avalanche.energy/

They don't say much besides some very lofty claims ... does anyone know more about them? Somewhere else they said they had a patent filled, but the only one I could find in the right timeframe from WA is https://patentimages.storage.googleapis ... 0402A1.pdf and it doesn't seem like what they are describing.
Patrick Lindecker
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Re: Orbitron

Post by Patrick Lindecker »

Hello Joe,

For what I understand (but I'm not too sure), the term "avalanche" might refer to their invention regarding the "plasma generation system" where they use their system to use the "Multipactor effect", i.e. they create a RF resonance with a magnetron (RF generator) and a wave guide (to limit RF losses), so that the secondary electrons multiplication be sufficient to lead to an exponential growing of electrons flow which is a sort of "avalanche" of electrons.

About their invention regarding the "Multipator fusor device, I abstract their interesting idea for the ones not having read the patent (and for what I understand, as it is not absolutly clear).
A magnetron supplies with RF a central tuned antenna so as to create a RF oscillating electric field. In a bell jar under vacuum, it is injected a Deuterium gas. The RF frequency is supposed to create a periodically oscillating plasma with ions increasing their speed by accumulation of energy (possible even if the electric field is low).
The antenna tip is coated with Lithium to breed the reactor in T+ ions. In another configuration, it can also be coated with boron to produce B11+ H+ fusions.
This device has no magnetic confinement so the efficiency would be probably similar to the Fusor one or a bit better.
It seems to the POPS system.

Note: it is extremely difficult (let's see almost impossible) to produce high voltage at high frequencies (lets's say >10 MHz) due to the parasitic capacity (the power P to load this capacity being in P=C . V . dV/dt which can be enormous at high dV/dt and hence high frequency). An accumulation of energy by resonance avoids this problem, up to a certain limit.

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Paul_Schatzkin
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Re: Orbitron

Post by Paul_Schatzkin »

Good find, Joe.

How did that show up on your radar?

I get a daily Google Alert for the keywords 'nuclear fusion'. I pretty much ignore it because it's one 'breakthrough' Tokamak story after another.

This one is interesting, it certainly has elements of IEC in it - though every time I see the word "magnets' I think "nope, that's not it either.

Nice website though. That seems more important these days than the actual results. 🤔

--PS
Paul Schatzkin, aka "The Perfesser" – Founder and Host of Fusor.net
Author of The Boy Who Invented Television: 2023 Edition – https://amz.run/6ag1
"Fusion is not 20 years in the future; it is 60 years in the past and we missed it."
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Joe Gayo
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Re: Orbitron

Post by Joe Gayo »

@Patrick

The term "avalanche" I believe comes from HB11 talking about better than expected fusion rates. Since this startup claims, they will use p+B11 they took this term.

I don't think that's their patent, only the closest I could find that was from the same area and time frame.

The website says they are using a magnetic field to confine electrons. I think they intend on having the entire device operate as a magnetron. It sounds very similar to a Japanese attempt to combine a magnetic field and a cylindrical IEC device.
https://t2r2.star.titech.ac.jp/rrws/fil ... ecured.pdf
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.fusengdes.2010.04.036


@Paul

The fusion subreddit group is sometimes a good source.
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Richard Hull
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Re: Orbitron

Post by Richard Hull »

I am looking forward to being the first on my block to use those stackable subcompact fusion energy sources. God knows I have waited long enough and I do look forward to contributing my bit to the return to the purity of nature and saving the glaciers against the onslaught of man's ever spoiling hand on the throat of nature and the climate.

I have planned a fete to celebrate this coup for this Saturday here at HEAS.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Dennis P Brown
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Re: Orbitron

Post by Dennis P Brown »

I have little doubt ... actually, no doubt, that they will produce orders of magnitude less fusion events then your Fusor IV. Not going to want to know how many dollars per neutron they will have spent to discover that fact.
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Richard Hull
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Re: Orbitron

Post by Richard Hull »

The great thing about the field of fusion research is that it is wide open with countless numbers of ideas, startups, shutdowns, money pits, promises and a good sprinkling of bunkum. A vast pit exists for storage of old ideas that went no where. Occasionally, this pit is looked at as a well for ideas that want mending or polishing. Take another look, as it were.

There is no end in sight or light at the end of the fusion tunnel.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Patrick Lindecker
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Re: Orbitron

Post by Patrick Lindecker »

Hello Joe,

OK for all. I saw the Japanese document. Sure that a magnetic field will lengten the particles route and the probability of fusion before particles be lost.
It seems a bit to a magnetic botlle. So a better efficiency than a Fusor but still far away for an efficiency of 1.
OK for the magnetron which will come to the same idea.

Patrick Lindecker
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Re: Orbitron

Post by Justin Fozzard »

Back in 2006 I did some research into creating a coherent terahertz source using a modified "Orbitron" for one of our customers.
These are an incredibly simple broadband microwave source consisting of a very thin wire, about 10 um diameter, that is held along the central axis of an evacuated cylinder.
A high potential is applied between the wire and cylinder causing electrons to be emitted from the wall of the cylinder and then accelerate towards the wire. The electrons execute tightly spiralled orbits around the wire and produce synchrotron radiation as their orbit radius decreases.

I investigated a resonant corrugated waveguide structure as a replacement for the cylindrical outer electrode in the hope of producing a tuned output. (The outer electrode consisted of a simple stack of very thin washers of varying inner diameter to create an array of annular resonators.)
It was fairly easy to produce around a watt at 300GHz and higher but the output was too noisy and not coherent.
It was also rather difficult to measure the output frequency and power using the equipment I had available at the time.

During my research I also came across the Orbitrap Ion Trap that is very similar to the device discussed above.

Here are some relevant papers:
Alexeff US4459511 Maser - Orbitron Patent.pdf
(957.88 KiB) Downloaded 573 times
The Lasing Mechanism of the Orbitron.pdf
(1.3 MiB) Downloaded 381 times
The Orbitrap.pdf
(646.16 KiB) Downloaded 542 times
Patrick Lindecker
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Re: Orbitron

Post by Patrick Lindecker »

Hello Justin,

Interesting links.
However I have a doubt about the Orbitron. As there is no magnetic field to make rotate the electrons, why the electrons simply don't simply strike directly the wire. What is the force which make rotate electrons? I suppose that it must be some deformation of the electric field, but it is not obvious and not clear in the patent...

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Re: Orbitron

Post by JoeBallantyne »

The description of the Orbitron device on the website does say that it uses a magnetic field to cause the electrons to orbit within the device.

I expect that any patents applied for on the current work/device are likely still in process, and therefore have not been published by the patent office.

Getting a patent granted is almost always a long drawn out process with a significant amount of back and forth between the applicant and the patent office. You have to get the patent into a state that they will accept, and that takes time.

That is probably why Joe Gayo can't find any patent descriptions of their latest work. Evidently Avalanche Energy has been around since ~2018 and was in stealth mode for ~3 years or so.

Joe.
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Re: Orbitron

Post by Jon Rosenstiel »

Latest from Avalanche Energy.

https://www-geekwire-com.cdn.ampproject ... nergy/amp/

Jon Rosenstiel
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Richard Hull
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Re: Orbitron

Post by Richard Hull »

Thanks for the update article. It is all out in the open now. The article reads like the thousands of others we have been bombarded with since the 1950's. The new start-ups only need to inject a whisper of "green" into their platform and struggle and they are in the money or at the forefront of an "earth saving" technology.

I find this fabulous! "I'm not joking".... "This is no joke"..... This is capitalism re-invented. They are far removed from Augusta but are winning and wearing the "Green Jacket". They are working not for the money but for a future of us all.

Same-same as always. The emperor has new clothes, exchanging the purple for the green. Long live the emperor's mission and new motives.


The "Planet of the Humans" documentary notes how business and industry is gearing up to cash in on the new green technology. Tiny startups with such plans are in the mix, big time! The new "green" goal is as always, keeping the leaders in th' green.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Dennis P Brown
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Re: Orbitron

Post by Dennis P Brown »

Yet the truly "Green", no carbon fuel, nuclear fission reactor that burns the vast reserves of waste nuclear fuel is struggling to get noticed much less get any money. It is simple (needs zero personnel to run), critically, many orders of magnitude safer then any existing fission reactor and can be modular for local use (very small cities.) If capitalism made sense, this would be at least looked at as a pilot program.
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Richard Hull
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Re: Orbitron

Post by Richard Hull »

Agreed, Every time they refuel major fission reactors, there is a tremendous amount of unused fuel in the spent fuel left unburned. Why?

Well, giant fission plants have to maintain a base load capacity. When the fuel in the core is used up to the point where that capacity is in jeopardy, they must refuel with fresh fuel. Come on Jim Kovalchick verify this.....

The modular concept is simple. Burn the bulk of the remaining fuel from the giant plant's used material that has been removed.

Issues? Some reprocessing is needed, but the mix of spent fuel now contains plutonium generated in the burning of the original loading in the massive fission reactor. As more or less MOX reburn is proposed to be investigated for used in modular type reactor systems to get that last bit of useful energy out of spent fuel. Such a reactor would be of a modified design to utilize this waste material.

Fast reactors offer the possibility of using the tons of depleted, yet fertile uranium 238 as fuel. It is to be remembered that uranium which has been enriched in U235 used in first pass massive fission plants, is still composed mostly of U238!

Check out some ideas at:

https://world-nuclear.org/information-l ... -fuel.aspx

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Dennis P Brown
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Re: Orbitron

Post by Dennis P Brown »

Here is the site for the people trying to get a realistic solution using safe and cost effective nuclear fission power: https://www.elysiumindustries.com/

The fact that a nuclear fission reactor uses only about 1% of the available energy of their fuel explains why this approch makes sense - this company's design will use most of the remaining energy in that waste fuel; hence, just with existing waste fuel currently available this approch could supply all current electrical needs of the US for one hundred years. Of course, this would then be, essentially, carbon free!
William Turner
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Re: Orbitron

Post by William Turner »

In reading up about fusion and electrostatic confinement, I came across a Reddit post about Avalanche Energy that has a link to a presentation they provided to the State of Washington's Department of Health as part of their application for a radiation-generating device license.

https://www.reddit.com/r/fusion/comment ... for_state/
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Richard Hull
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Re: Orbitron

Post by Richard Hull »

Within a link supplied by William Turner, in another thread related to an "orbitron" fusion scheme, I found (part two) of a ridiculous fusor build ostensibly built by two gals. The first You Tube run on this effort was a bust. Apparently, a major player at Helion invited the ladies to work up a second pass at making a fusor. With someone on hand with $25,000 worth of spare parts, the girls "seem" to be assembling a large CF cross type, fusor device. With many thanks to video editing, the device seems to get ever more connected to a finished entity. At one point, we actually see one girl turning a bolt with a wrench, Wow! Note: Simone is that girl. She is a proven "doer" which we hold as very special. She has her own workshop.

In the end, the 25+ kilobuck contrivance is assembled. The girls are all agog over "their" assemblage. With a fail on deuterium flow, using what amounts to a water spigot, the Helion people use a needle metering flow control and create a halting and fading 6kv demo fusor ball. The girls freak out as expected and are told it is doing fusion. They accept this on faith of course, as no fusion detection electronic gear is at hand.

We know, in theory, that some micro amount of fusion that is, effectively immeasurable, and probably there for but a fleeting moment. We have dubbed a non-proof of fusion, "star in a jar" like this weak attempt, as being a "demo Fusor". Who dare question such an expensive and impressive effort by these two ladies?

Watch this amazingly well put together Puff piece! It is a masterpiece of video edited deception showing that even girls can do it.
I would love to hear our successful fusioneer, Emma's take on this video. I would be embarrassed to assemble such a video as this, but Helion came to the rescue of these girls first video fail with a gang O' bucks in parts they had surplus to their mega $$$$ effort.

I do not make fun of the ladies' glee at seeing the plasma ball form, even if it is a fleeting view. Why do I not poke fun at the excited ladies? In 1997, at my HEAS yearly gathering, once I saw Tom Ligon's plastic desiccator demo fusor produce a perfect floating ball of plasma, I was as one of those girls!! I am here today because of that first image that burned its way into my brain. The image below was captured by me that fateful day in 1997.

As I see it...Tom Ligon was the Johnny Appleseed of amateur fusion, with but one seed that took root. I was merely the first tree in an orchard that the perfesser created.

The pass #2 video is seen at...........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsikwXnUcBs

Richard Hull
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This image was what dragged me into amateur fusion for the past 26 years....Still at it too...
This image was what dragged me into amateur fusion for the past 26 years....Still at it too...
Here is that pitiful but totally successful demo fusor at HEAS 1997 brought and demo'd by Tom Ligon
Here is that pitiful but totally successful demo fusor at HEAS 1997 brought and demo'd by Tom Ligon
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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