Unfortunate news about my fusor

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Luca Aldridge
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Unfortunate news about my fusor

Post by Luca Aldridge »

Today, I received an email back from the head of physics at my high school effectively declining my request for funding to build a fusor, which is quite upsetting.

I'll continue posting every now and again with questions, as I'm writing a proof of concept paper.

I know this isn't really anything to do with anything and I understand if it's deleted, but I just wanted to express my frustration, with a community that loves building these things. I really wish I had received it, as I was fully prepared to do all the hard work and grit that has to be put into this.


Apologies again for the spam post, which it is effectively.
Luca Aldridge
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Joe Gayo
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Re: Unfortunate news about my fusor

Post by Joe Gayo »

Luca,

I'm sorry to hear that. It is upsetting to have a door shut on something you're excited about.

But I think there is an upside. If you had a healthy amount of funds you would end up buying equipment that removed the opportunity to learn. This doesn't have to be the end of your fusion quest, in fact, it may be the start of you learning the key elements of electronics, vacuum, measurement, etc. that will make your pursuit of fusion more successful.

I encourage you to keep pushing.

Regards, Joe
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Liam David
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Re: Unfortunate news about my fusor

Post by Liam David »

It's a real bummer when something like that falls through. I know the feeling. However, as Joe said, there is a silver lining. While you may not be able to splurge on equipment and build everything in a relatively short time, scrounging for components on Ebay, surplus sites, etc.. and putting in the frustrating but rewarding hours repairing things will pay dividends in the long run. If you're patient and play your cards right, you might be able to put a system together for <$2000, and perhaps much less. There were a few times in my journey I considered moving on to other projects, particularly after major things like turbos and PSUs failed, but I'm glad I stuck with it. The experience I gained has been invaluable and building a fusor has opened up many, many opportunities. I'm not the type to pad a resume, but these kinds of pursuits do attract attention, whether at the university, grad school, or professional level. If nothing else, it can greatly improve your problem-solving skills.

All the best, whichever way you decide to proceed.
Luca Aldridge
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Re: Unfortunate news about my fusor

Post by Luca Aldridge »

Hi Joe and Liam, Thanks for replying.
I'm glad you can sympathise/empathise with me.

As for the silver lining you both mentioned, I'm not going to stop research as it's still in my top two career choices, but I think it's going to be a hard sell, even to my parents as opposed to the school.

Liam, what opportunities did it open up if you're happy to share?

Joe, I will try and keep pushing, but probably just theory for the next few years

Thanks,
Luca
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Joe Gayo
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Re: Unfortunate news about my fusor

Post by Joe Gayo »

Luca,

I think those around you will be more eager to support you if you can demonstrate some momentum/progress. You could pick one aspect of the device, say a vacuum gauge, and develop whatever electronics or code is necessary to read and record the data. This shows that you are serious and will push through challenges to complete a task.

If you commit to posting your progress on Fusor.net, I will send you an MKS 901p. You will need to figure out how to power it and read out the measured pressure, but it would be a starting point for your fusor.

Joe
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Re: Unfortunate news about my fusor

Post by Matt_Gibson »

Luca,

This is a good setback. It’s going to force you to learn how to scrounge. You can’t scrounge/improvise until you really understand what is going on and what does what. You’ll develop an “eye” that can see something meant for one thing yet will work for another.

I remember being at your point in life and the challenges. I built a DRSSTC for my high school senior design class after really really scrounging for everything. It’ll become a passion and passions are the things that keep us moving forward!

This will also program your brain for some excellent problem solving/ingenuity that will help you through school.

I’m a hiring manager (a director of engineering) and these are the sort of things I look for that set people apart. My best employees have all sorts of projects/business/hobbies/interests.

FWIW- My college Senior Design professor gave me a “hard no” to a fusor when I proposed it. He was right that if I succeeded, I could hurt others with less experience than I had at the time.

Good luck!

-Matt
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Mark Rowley
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Re: Unfortunate news about my fusor

Post by Mark Rowley »

Luca, dont give up on your dream. I began this journey in the late 90's and didnt produce a single neutron until the summer of 2019.
Start off by building a simple demo system as there is a lot to learn from doing so.... plus its just plain fun!

Mark Rowley
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Liam David
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Re: Unfortunate news about my fusor

Post by Liam David »

Speaking from experience and money aside, I think the hardest selling point for your parents is safety. Parents worry immensely when their child is working with high voltage, radiation, and all manner of less obvious hazards (imploding glass, oil mist, power tools, etc.). Pair maturity with motivation and a mind for safety, and convince them of the merits of learning through such a project, and you'll be much more likely to gain their support.

I would encourage you to not just study theory for the next couple of years, but also work on smaller hardware/software projects along the way. Take Joe up on his offer and learn how to interface with the gauge. Even without a vacuum system, you will learn a lot. How about tracking atmospheric pressure over time and seeing how it varies with the weather? Learn Arduino hardware and programming if you haven't. I run my whole fusor data acquisition system with Arduinos and it's one way to interface with the 901p gauge. Get a few solderless breadboards and some electronics components. Learn about op-amps and build a Geiger counter. All these suggestions could be done for <$100 total and the experience you gain will give you a significant jump-start when you do begin building a fusor.

One recent and notable thing that building a fusor helped with is my admission to the MIT and Princeton graduate schools for plasma physics. A strong academic record is a good thing to have, but demonstrating your perseverance, ingenuity, breadth of skills, and general research prowess will help you stand out among your peers. Matt's post is another great example.
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Richard Hull
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Re: Unfortunate news about my fusor

Post by Richard Hull »

I thought I was slow going in my initial quest at fusion. Mark Rowley really took it slow! However I feel I did it the right way.

I had a duplicate Nalgene desiccator demo fusor functioning only 40 days after I saw Tom Ligon's fusor in 1997.

I realized, in spite of a lot of skills that I possessed, there was some weakness in some physics and technology and took about 8 months of intensive reading and experimenting before making fusor II (demo ). Learned a lot from it. Far more than from that first pass. There was more reading and study as I built fusor III doing my first fusion in 1999.

Fusor III was a real lab experience in doing fusion 1999-2004 over two iterations of it. Low fusion rate never more than 250,000 n/s.

Fusor IV was the real win and with many upgrades and modifications all along the way, activation, better instrumentation and cleaner system work went from 2004-2018 This became a special demo fusor that did fusion and enthralled many a visitor and group that would do fusion after seeing it in action at 2004-2018 HEAS national events. A total of about 1000 people have actually stood before the fusor IV while it has been doing fusion and activating metals.

After 2018, it was fits and starts and redo's on fusor V with what might be a planned fusor VI soon.

So take heart, going slow, especially at a young age, allows time to learn via study and in acquiring skill sets for the hands. There is college, first job, maybe marriage and then kids that just might push a serious effort that has a bit of money behind it down the road. I started at 51 and am still working it at 75. For me, the time was right to do fusion at 51. Did fusion at 54. Still doing it.

Costs? I figure I have $40,000 spent over the years with $10,000 of it being the 700 sq. ft. lab I added to my home back in the 90's.

Needless to say, I am sorry you got turned down for funding to do fusion at your school.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Luca Aldridge
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Re: Unfortunate news about my fusor

Post by Luca Aldridge »

HI everyone, thanks for taking the time to write these messages.

Joe, I'll take you up on your offer, and i'll definitely commit to posting on here. How should we proceed with that as I'm in the UK? I'll figure the gauge all out and do what Liam said, doing experiments with the vacuum gauge and learn circuitry with breadboards. My school has these so that should be easy to do. The Geiger counter sounds interesting too, I'll make that too and post it on the forums.

I'll make sure that I keep safe with those hazards Liam mentioned.

Richard, the point you make is true, I will make sure to continue working on my practical skills and knowledge, and theoretical knowledge.

Mark, I won't give up. I'll try to earn money through any ways I can and learn to scrounge, like Matt said

Thanks again for writing these. I really do appreciate it.
Luca Aldridge
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Paul_Schatzkin
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news about my fusor

Post by Paul_Schatzkin »

.
Note that I edited "unfortunate" from the Subject: header. It's news, but not necessarily 'unfortunate' #SilverLinings
Luca Aldridge wrote: Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:05 pm Today, I received an email back from the head of physics at my high school effectively declining my request for funding to build a fusor, which is quite upsetting.
I'm sorry to hear that, Luca, but as others above have indicated, it's no reason for despair.

Can you tell us how much you were seeking to fund the project? If you'r not comfortable sharing that info publicly, DM me with it.

In some of the posted dialog around the most recent host migration and attendant fundraising, I mentioned in passing that I'm exploring setting up a 501c3 non-profit .org. The primary purpose of such an enterprise would be to sustain the site itself, but a secondary function could be to provide limited funding for people like yourself. That's a very loaded thing to even suggest, as there are a lot of protocols to be sorted out how just such a thing would work. Having some idea what you felt you needed to get started would give us a point of reference if we ever have that conversation.

--PS
Paul Schatzkin, aka "The Perfesser" – Founder and Host of Fusor.net
Author of The Boy Who Invented Television: 2023 Edition – https://amz.run/6ag1
"Fusion is not 20 years in the future; it is 60 years in the past and we missed it."
Luca Aldridge
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Re: Unfortunate news about my fusor

Post by Luca Aldridge »

Hi Paul,
Because of the safety expectations of my school, I would need everything new and from reputable brands, i.e. expensive.
Taking that into consideration, the estimate for it was around $15,000.
If self-funding, I'll go the scrounge way and build a system for hopefully $2k minimum.
Of course I understand that the suggestion is loaded. I wouldn't ever want to seem like I was asking for money from strangers.
Anyway, as said, I'll now look to build a cheap system with scrounged parts.

Luca
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Joe Gayo
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Re: Unfortunate news about my fusor

Post by Joe Gayo »

Money is the least valuable thing someone can receive on their quest for a successful fusor experience.

Joe
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Richard Hull
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Re: Unfortunate news about my fusor

Post by Richard Hull »

Here, Here! Well spoken, Joe!

I spent a lotta' dough and a lotta' time, but it was repaid beyond my wildest dreams.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Luca Aldridge
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Re: Unfortunate news about my fusor

Post by Luca Aldridge »

I agree with both of you, but I was just responding to Paul's reply
This site is one of, if not the most valuable resource for any fusioneer.
Luca Aldridge
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Paul_Schatzkin
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Re: xx news about my fusor

Post by Paul_Schatzkin »

Joe Gayo wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 3:51 pm Money is the least valuable thing someone can receive on their quest for a successful fusor experience.
Richard Hull wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:09 pm I spent a lotta' dough and a lotta' time, but it was repaid beyond my wildest dreams.
The dichotomy between these two perspectives is what intrigues me.

On the one hand I agree entirely with both sentiments, especially what Joe says about the real value of the whole fusor experience.

On the other hand, what Richard says illustrates that it does take <i>some</i> coin to get started, even if it's.. what was the original quote, "the cost of a used set of golf clubs"? Something like that.

Most of the veterans around here are at a point in their lives where they can afford that kind of discretionary expenditure. But somebody like Luca, who may not have the necessary resources at his ready command, also deserves a chance to see what he can do and learn.

What's knocking around in my head is an initiative to take this whole enterprise to a different level, to round up some funding so that seeds can be planted. So that if somebody like Luca needs even $2K to get started, there might be a place for him to find it.

There would have to be a process, criteria, some kind of governing board or panel.

I am expressing thought here that are not fully formed, but they are simmering on the front burner.

--P
Paul Schatzkin, aka "The Perfesser" – Founder and Host of Fusor.net
Author of The Boy Who Invented Television: 2023 Edition – https://amz.run/6ag1
"Fusion is not 20 years in the future; it is 60 years in the past and we missed it."
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Dennis P Brown
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Re: Unfortunate news about my fusor

Post by Dennis P Brown »

Luca, might I suggest that you aim to first build a Geiger-Muller counter? The main detector tubes are readily available and very inexpensive. The knowledge gained in building the power supply (rather easy) and detector circuits (much more involved) would be extremely useful in developing the skills needed for building some of the equipment you would require for a fusor - i.e. besides said GM counter these skills are useful for building fusor power supplies (rather complex and involved) and neutron detector systems.

Designing (reading up on what others did but critically, what all parts of the circuit does and why) and building most of the components for a GM detector would be rather inexpensive, useful and extremely good at getting some of the knowledge needed for a fusor.
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Re: Unfortunate news about my fusor

Post by Matt_Gibson »

I’ll second what Dennis said. I’ve built a number of projects before my fusor. They all helped immensely.

Tesla coils (spark gap, drsstc, vttc), ruby laser, high power diode lasers drivers, etc. These projects really helped me develop my skills!

The power supply, alone, for a fusor can be tricky and/or mighty expensive. A fusor power supply shouldn’t be your first go at anything to do with high voltage, IMO.

The Geiger counter project would help with some of the skills needed as well as let you experiment with radiation safely.
Luca Aldridge
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Re: Unfortunate news about my fusor

Post by Luca Aldridge »

Hi both,
I'm looking into it. A detection tube and board kit is £30, and I need an arduino nano too, but all in all not much at all
It looks exciting, I'll keep you updated.
Luca Aldridge
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