Window 7 Computer

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Dennis P Brown
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Window 7 Computer

Post by Dennis P Brown »

Can not believe that I am forced to purchase a window 7 based computer; my 3He software (2018) does not work with Win 10 and no update on the device's site can get the software to work (the company suggests I use a 64 bit Win 7 computer.) Guess Windows really is more a virus than an operating system.

The good news is such a machine is still sold (used but reconditioned) by amazon. Also, my scintillation counter and interface 'black box' uses RS-232 ports (for data storage/display) and their software only works with Win7. So, hopefully this solves a couple of issues. Takes a few weeks to mfg. said computer (really, they don't keep them in stock? Surely there is a huge demand for such old machines due to software/hardware issues like mine ... ;) )

All I can say is older equipment (surplus) comes with an added cost.

Aside: just discovered that Win 10 has a fatal flaw in its recovery software: the backup system that creates a mirror image of the drive (to save everything) can not be used to re-install said mirror image; the software creates a password protection system when creating the image. So when someone attempts to recover their system using mirror image, the software demands a password that does not exist! MS apparently is aware but will not acknowledge this bug/fatal flaw. It really is a virus. Discovered this the hard way.
JoeBallantyne
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Re: Window 7 Computer

Post by JoeBallantyne »

Do the following google search: running win 7 programs in win 10

Either of the top 2 results should get those programs running on Win10.

Most of the time the reason a program won't run, is because it is doing a hard coded version check against a specific windows version, and explicitly excludes newer versions from being acceptable.

Running the program in compatibility mode will make Windows lie to it when it queries the version, and then it will most likely run just fine.

I expect all of the programs you are having problems with can be fixed using the compatibility tab.

Joe.
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Dennis P Brown
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Re: Window 7 Computer

Post by Dennis P Brown »

Good suggestion and I tried that - no dice. That is, of course, supposed to fix such problems like this but this 3He software concerns me - something feels off about it. It did run once (first time) but the next day failed - wouldn't even load. I talked to the developer and they appear to be baffled as well. That more then anything is a warning flag - well, I will try a real win7 64 bit machine; I had a win 7 computer but it is 32 bit - the software won't work in 32 bit mode.

I would really like to be able to get a spectral display as well as simple counts. The software is rather essential for that so I will try the win 7 route.

Once I get the win 7 system (64-bit) machine and try the software, I'll know if it is just a software issue or code issue; if the later, then that means the company's software product's are junk. Guess I'll see in a few weeks. Always something creating issues when it comes to microsoft - their continued 'updating' of the OS just creates an endless market for new versions of software making sure old programs fail.
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Aidan_Roy
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Re: Window 7 Computer

Post by Aidan_Roy »

Dennis,

If you have a sufficiently powerful enough computer and a cpu capable of core virtualization(most modern ones are) you could try to run a windows 7 virtual machine in a program like Virtual Box for free. It creates essentially an OS inside the current OS with its own dedicated memory. It’s almost impossible to tell the difference with outside software as to whether it’s authentic or not. You can refer to this link if you need help:

https://www.sysnettechsolutions.com/en/ ... indows-10/

Should be a good way to at least tell if buying an old windows 7 computer is worth it.

-Aidan
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Dennis P Brown
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Re: Window 7 Computer

Post by Dennis P Brown »

Aidan - fantastic post with that link! These are issues that will be biting people more often (certainly me) since more and more equipment needs computers and operating systems and these are changing far too fast and far too often; worse, the software developed for the equipment often doesn't support the newer versions. This could aid others that discover this issue. Thanks again!

Aside: I'd rather have posted this in the Control, ..., Hardware and Software topic area but didn't want to step on the very relevant and interesting PEM thread there. Maybe this can be moved below that thread so as not to displace it?
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Nathan Marshall
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Re: Window 7 Computer

Post by Nathan Marshall »

Aidan beat me to it! A virtual machine would be my suggestion too. Your predicament reminds me of an old but trusty spectrofluorometer in the chemistry department at my undergrad university. The thing was built like a tank and being used for active research, but had to be run on a Windows 98 computer!
Jerry Biehler
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Re: Window 7 Computer

Post by Jerry Biehler »

The EDX unit on my SEM was intended for Win 98 or possibly 95 but luckily enough it work up to at least Windows 7. It just uses the ethernet port so no specific drivers are needed. I have found if you make the screen bigger than what probably would have been a 1280x1024 monitor at the time it became pretty unhappy though.

I think the bigger issue going forward is drivers. I have a HP/Agilent interferometer setup and the USB box for it only has 32bit drivers. Even though it was intended for XP it works fine under Win 10 but you have to have a 32bit OS which is basically at the end of it's life at this point. I have tried using a virtual machine running 32 bit xp under 64 bit win 10 but it won't set up the drivers for the USB port even though it is passing though. So at this point I just have a separate partition on a laptop with 32 bit win 10. Your windows 10 license works with both 32bit and 64bit versions of the OS, you dont have to have separate licenses like in the past. I have a suitcase computer that is similarly set up because I need a 32bit driver for a PCI industrial camera card.

Sp virtualization is probably the best bet if you have tried the compatibility settings under windows. Right click on the icon for the program and go to properties and find the compatibility mode page. You can use this to tell the software it is running under a different version of windows. It rarely works though.
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Dennis P Brown
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Re: Window 7 Computer

Post by Dennis P Brown »

Your point about screen resolution (aka size) is spot on and a serious problem for older software applications. This certainly is part of the issue with the 3He software I ran (but unfortunately, not the only issue.)

My scintillation counter 'black box' only transmits via an rs-232 port; tried an emulator through a USB port to rs-232 cable but no dice on the software. It knew the port was there but couldn't communicate through it.

Considering this, the 3He software issue, and that Win 10 lost most my files during a crash/reimage of the system thanks to MS bug in its back up software (I have all those files backed up on an old Win 7 hard drive so another reason to have that type of computer), I am definitely going to use a computer built for and operating win 7 (64 bit) w/ a RS-232 port. Seriously, do not use Win 10 mirror image as your primary back up - it does not work and MS knows this; hopefully they fixed the issue in Win 11 but I'd check that before depending on that as your backup.

Emulation and using the drop down software mode to get the software to use older versions is the logical first step. Those failed in my efforts but can work at times and are worth trying.
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Ed Meserve
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Re: Window 7 Computer

Post by Ed Meserve »

I don't have much experience with Virtualbox, but I use VMWare on a daily basis as a large part of my day to day work involves interfacing with antiquated PLCs requiring Win7, XP, even Win95!

I believe you can still get a trial version (for personal use) of VMware Player which, in my opinion, does an excellent job of handling drivers and the screen resolution issue. https://www.vmware.com/

You can easily pass serial and ethernet ports into the VM environment and works as if native. I use it a lot with older programs that won't run on the newer PCs. You can setup 32bit or 64bit VMs as needed.

There is also a Unity mode which makes it appear as the VM application is running on the Host machine.
Ed Meserve
Jerry Biehler
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Re: Window 7 Computer

Post by Jerry Biehler »

VirtualBox is updated often, works well. Personally I would use that over a dedicated PC if you are just talking to something over serial.
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