Plotting Neutrons vs Voltage

It may be difficult to separate "theory" from "application," but let''s see if this helps facilitate the discussion.
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Steven Sesselmann
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Plotting Neutrons vs Voltage

Post by Steven Sesselmann » Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:56 am

Guys, for what it's worth, I was thinking that the shape of a simple Voltage vs Neutron output plot will tell you whether or not your fusion experiment is on the path to success.

If the neutron output tapers off as the voltage increases, you are going nowhere, however if the curve is even slightly concave, you are on the path to success.

I attach a sample picture from made up data, but I would be very interested in seeing some charts with real data from some of you guys that already have working fusors.

Steven
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Re: Plotting Neutrons vs Voltage

Post by RealBorg » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:56 pm

What is the meaning of the red and blue color?

Do you also have data on current consumption?
Could you also plot a chart fusion rate vs. power consumption?

tom

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Richard Hull
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Re: Plotting Neutrons vs Voltage

Post by Richard Hull » Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:46 pm

Thomas was wise in his posted reply. I have exceeded 1 mega neutron per second, isotropic, (2 million fusions/sec), at 45kv applied and a current of about 13 ma.

A given voltage only determines the probability of fusion occuring between two, and only two, impinging deuterons. Current determines the amount of fusion fuel, (deuterons), that are in play at that given voltage. More deuterons, plus more voltage, means much more fusion than your graph shows.

My guess is that the chart's data was taken in a rather thin, vacuous, lower pressure environment than we have in a fusor and very low current as it shows a million neuts only obtained near 100kev. A truly whimpy system, indeed.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

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Re: Plotting Neutrons vs Voltage

Post by Jon Rosenstiel » Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:28 pm

Data from my fusor.

Jon Rosenstiel
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Richard Hull
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Re: Plotting Neutrons vs Voltage

Post by Richard Hull » Fri Jul 25, 2014 4:49 am

Thanks Jon! Those milliamps and our high pressure regime are the telling items at any voltage. Lotsa' fuel and lotsa' deuterons made from that fuel. A real winning amateur fusion solution. I am gratified that you cross the mega mark almost exactly where I do at similar currents and pressure.

The pros would never consider operating at such high pressures and contnuous currents like we do in a spherical device. Far too in-eligant, crude and brutish, to say the least. Far too simple. Far too small a budget required and easily seen by every person examining it that it has no future in the energy game needed to seem serious enough to win millions in funding.

It works by simply bull-heading fusion into happening. This is similar to mining coal by hitting the coal face with a steel blade, fronted automobile at 100 miles per hour. You'll get a lot of coal to harvest, but by a method and at a cost that seems ridiculous to any learned mining professional. Amateur coal miners using this method are just after coal enough for their purposes and not to go into the coal mining biz. They get junker automobiles that barely run, weld a big, four point, wedge blade to the front and crash them headlong into the face and are happy with the bountiful yield per unit crash. They just can't afford the giant, multi-million dollar, multi-ton, drilling/clawing/grinding, specialized machines that the pro's use. Still, they get coal enough for their purposes.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

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John Taylor
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Re: Plotting Neutrons vs Voltage

Post by John Taylor » Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:16 am

Richard,
I love your automobile in a coal mine analogy! That's so true AND hilarious!!!

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Re: Plotting Neutrons vs Voltage

Post by John Futter » Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:52 am

Read Stevens post carefully guys

He says "made up data"
there is no meaning to the plot except to illustrate a good path vs a path that is leading nowhere

now however Jons plot is what Steven wanted people to post

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Garrett Young
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Re: Plotting Neutrons vs Voltage

Post by Garrett Young » Mon May 04, 2015 4:36 am

Jon Rosenstiel wrote:Data from my fusor.

Jon Rosenstiel
What was the pressure over theses voltages?
- Garrett

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Richard Hull
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Re: Plotting Neutrons vs Voltage

Post by Richard Hull » Mon May 04, 2015 3:54 pm

This sort of data is fully published here in the many run data expositions. In general 10 microns minimum and up to 20 microns, more or less maximum. My best runs were at 16 microns and ~45 kv applied @14ma. over 1.2 million neutrons/sec. Jon can give his general figures as he is the all time champion on neutron numbers. Very few sucessful amateur fusioneers ever attain these numbers.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

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