Electricity - how much do you use? Pay?

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Richard Hull
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Electricity - how much do you use? Pay?

Post by Richard Hull »

I was wondering if others here could report on this at their end.

I have heard the Virginia has cheap power. I would like to know how others fare in this respect.

How much power do I use? I have my bill in hand........

My heaviest month is always during the summer when humidity and heat is oppressive and air conditioning is the order of the day.

I used 1273 kwh in July this year (30 day period).
My lightest month was April with 750 kwh consummed.
My yearly average has been 955kwh/month.

How much is my electricity per kwh?

The raw electricity prices vary due to State allowed fuel adjustments.
The lowest billed rate was 3.94 cents/kwh.
The highest was 4.74 cents/kwh
The yearly average being 4.24 cents/kwh.

These prices do not include taxes or other charges. This is what Dominion VA Power gets at the meter.

I figure using only yearly average figures, that we use about 31.8 kwh/day. Without Air conditioning it is actually more like 22kwh/day

The lighting in my lab is 1120 watts! I burn 28 4-foot fluorescent lamps. On weekdays, I might spend 4 hours in the lab/day. On weekends it is more like 12 hours minimum/day. The house is lit by no more than 300 watts of incandescent light for 8 hours each day. My wife ignites the TV (~400 watts) from 6pm until about 1:30 AM, 7 days a week. I assume the bulk of my electricity bill revolves around the refrigerator, the electric range/microwave and the oil furnace water circulating pump.

I am very curious about other's bills.

Note, Our home is heated by oil, and we have radiator heat in each room.

Richard Hull
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Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
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Adam Szendrey
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Re: Electricity - how much do you use? Pay?

Post by Adam Szendrey »

Hi Richard!

You might be curious how much electricity costs here in Hungary.
Right now the billing rate is about 13 cents/kWh (plus tax).
We have a contract with the electricity company (here the electric grid is mostly in a single company's hand, the Hungarian Electricity Works) that we pay for a fixed amount of electricity every month, this amount is 232 kWh.
At the end of the year, they check if we have consumed more or less than 12x232 kWh, and we have to pay the difference, or they give back the difference, repsectively. Usually we consume less, but since we bought a larger refrigerator we might exceed it, but i doubt it.
232 kWh is about 38 $ with tax (which is 25 %), monthly, but again, the actual amount we pay varies according to how much we have consumed over the year.
It is obivious that electricity costs much more here.
Our flat is not big, maybe around 70 m^2, we heat, cook with natural gas (pipe). The biggest electricity consumers are the refrigerator, the microwave, the washing machine, and maybe the computer because it's running most of the day.
My mother hates fluorescent lights, even the compact ones, she doesn't like the tone of their light, and that these compact tubes indeed need some time to warm up to their maximum intensity after switched on, thus we use only two, the rest are conventional bulbs.
Oh and 3 of us (me,my mother, and my older sister) live in the flat.

Adam
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Richard Hull
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Re: Electricity - how much do you use? Pay?

Post by Richard Hull »

Thanks Adam. You were the first to reply. I figured Euro juice was going to be more expensive, just like Euro Gasoline. Yes, a flat is much more conservative of electricity than an entire home.

I'll bet some folks here that are gobbling up 1500-5000kwh/month might not even reply. Though, total electric homes here can easily hit and surpass this mark in Winter.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Re: Electricity - how much do you use? Pay?

Post by Adam Szendrey »

1500-5000 kWh? Holy!
The pharmacy where my mother works (she is the "boss" , that's why i know this), consumes about 250-260 $ worth of electricity per month, and they operate a freight elevator, and a smaller one, plus a number of refrigerators, and a massive air conditioner, plus the computers (4 or 5 of them running all day most of the week) and lighting. That bill means around 1500 kWh/month.
I'm guessing it would take one hell of a household to consume 5000 kWh/month.

Adam
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Re: Electricity - how much do you use? Pay?

Post by Frank Sanns »

Do you want the good news or bad news first???

First the good. I have 3kw of solar panels on the roof with a computer controlled 4.5 KW full sine wave inverter with a grid intertie to the utility company. Last month with the whole house air conditioning running, my monthly utility consumption was 270 KWh at a price of $27.70. That is $0.102 per KWH. It is expensive here in PA. My bill should be zero but with 3 other carbon units inhabiting this 2,500 square foot house, that is not bad.

The bad news is for commercial buidings in PA. The utility company bills the same rate per KW hour for everybody but commercial buildings also have a demand charge. This is a multiplier based on the peak 10 minute KWh use for the entire month. This means that they bill the entire month at a higher rate based on this peak use. If all of the machines and lights are on for a 10 minute period in the month then the rate of billing is escallated for all of the KHh used. My buildings are low KHw use but high peak demand so my number comes out to be over $0.20/KWh. This is higer than the PA Utility Commision will alow so I only have to pay the max of $0.145/KWh. Such a deal! My total bills on each of thes buidings can exceed $4,000 per month (tenants pay). Here is a picutre of my oldest building with an old 240 v 800 amp 3 phase service. How many electrons do you think are chasing through there? There is a hardhat on the floor for scale.

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Richard Hull
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Re: Electricity - how much do you use? Pay?

Post by Richard Hull »

Adam,

Believe me.....These 3000+kwh/month homes exist in abundance here in the U.S. Most are the massive $500,000 ++ modern, fake brick, 2 car garage, 5-6 bedroom, 2.5 bathroom monstrosities currently in demand by the economically deluded, 2 SUV and a BMW, households.

They are popping up here in Richmond like tasseling ears of corn in a fertile field. The market for used $200,000 homes is flooded as the noveau riche slip calmly out of these old 3 bedroom cramped digs into the new wave of $500,000 - $900,000 housing boom to show they have arrived. The $3,000/month house payment is a snap for the mom and dad working that slick high-tech, high-stress 9am to midnight job.

These homes are 100% totally electric with maybe a gas fireplace, but no chimney with the fake gas logs, for that special ambiance they so richly deserve and demand. These people are NOT considered RICH. They are considered only "well off".

It is true that most Americans are in stock older two bedroom homes in the $150,000-200,000 range. with a mixed bag of utility bills, gas, electric and oil.

The idea of a ghetto America where races of color live in single room apartments is long dead. I am sure this is a small fraction of 1% of all people in the U.S. Most in this boat are here illegally, or on the lamb and use this type of housing as a low rent, no questions asked, hideout.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
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Re: Electricity - how much do you use? Pay?

Post by Jon Rosenstiel »

Holy cow Richard, you do have low electric rates!

Here in Anaheim, CA I’m paying 6.71 cents/kWh for the first 240 kWh/month and then 11.02 cents/kWh for everything over the 240 kWh/month “lifeline” number.

For the month of June of this year we consumed a total of 1563 kWh worth of electricity. That averages out to 51 kWh/day.

Our June bill was $161.41 making our average electricity cost for the month of June 10.3 cents/kWh.

Our home is heated by natural gas. Also, the water heater and clothes dryer are gas powered. Everything else is electric.

My wife works out of our home (real estate stuff) so lights, computer, TV, and a/c are in use most of the time.

Jon Rosenstiel
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Re: Electricity - how much do you use? Pay?

Post by Richard Hull »

Frank,

I am sorry for you loss at the hands of the PA power company. I have two great friends who are members of our gorup that live in Philly and life there is very expensive. They live a a two story, old frame dwelling that they own and are barely makin' it.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Re: Electricity - how much do you use? Pay?

Post by Richard Hull »

Thanks John for your report. I thought that folks on the left coast, especially in old Gray Davis land would pay a premium. Hey, at least the terminator eliminated the worse of the brown outs. He must be shakin' up those "girlie boys" in the power industry. Still, the bill has to be paid by each Californian.

I don't think any of us will pull up stakes to go where the power is cheap, but I would like to know the general rates in various states. Anyone else?


Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Re: Electricity - how much do you use? Pay?

Post by Jon Rosenstiel »

Yeah, someone has to pay for the de-regulation debacle that took place a couple of years ago.

Electricity isn't the only thing that's expensive in California. Here in Orange County the median home cost is $655,000! (That's for a used home)!

Jon Rosenstiel
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Re: Electricity - how much do you use? Pay?

Post by davidtrimmell »

Jon, your rates are so high down there in California so we all up here in the north west can have nice low rates ;-) I can't remember exactly what we are paying (rates have gone up about 30% over the last 2-3 years), but around $0.03-4 something per/KWh. You can blame Enron for those nasty rates down south.

Regards,

David Trimmell
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Richard Hull
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Re: Electricity - how much do you use? Pay?

Post by Richard Hull »

Dave has decent low rates, like here in VA. I figure anything below 6 cents/kwh is a steal in the U.S.

John's housing costs are about inline for what I thought it would cost to "move in" in populous areas in CA. Of course, salaries are higher there too.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Jon Rosenstiel
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Re: Electricity - how much do you use? Pay?

Post by Jon Rosenstiel »

David,
Yeah, having the Columbia River at your doorstep has to help.

Jon Rosenstiel
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Re: Electricity - how much do you use? Pay?

Post by 3l »

Hi Guys:

In Mississippi where you are at will determine what rate you pay.
In Southhaven where no new building occurs 8-12 cents a KW-Hr.
In Mississippi we have state laws that "adjust" the rate so that any new developement is charged dirrectly to the customer.
Hence a multimillion dollar housing developement deal has all those poor ratepayers to tote the note on the installation of new
substations ,overhead wiring, and poles to said subdivision.
It may only cost the utility 6 cents a Kw-Hr (TVA) but if you live in a exerb like Oxford an aditional 5-7 cents sircharge is added.
Average usage in my area is 1700-2200 kw per day. Yard lights, Jakuzis spa, Patio heaters are all the rage, 24-7 security systems that never turn off
On 2 kw of solar using solar electric with Lp heat my bill is 75 dollars a month. It was 35 until the rate jumped. When I was still using central air electric was 760 dollar per month for a/c.


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Re: Electricity - how much do you use? Pay?

Post by Q »

here in NC i'm paying $.078 perKwh... for now. they dont print the rate on my bill anymore because it is always changing. but it seems to stay between $.07-.085.

air conditioning? we no need no stinkin' air conditioning! the summer months are my best for a low power bill. (my house is in between two mountains, one to the north, one to the south)
my average monthly bill this summer was $68 at around 800kwh per month. this is of course with the massive computer running all the time.

now winter is different, most of my heat is from a wood burning stove. however it does not heat the whole house. the back end uses electric base board heaters. this raises my bill to around $200 a month. the exact kw useage depends on the weather.

Q
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Re: Electricity - how much do you use? Pay?

Post by Brian McDermott »

Electricity is about 6 cents per kWh here in the suburban Boston area. Last month, we used 1800kWh or so, but I don't know where most of that consumption came from. We are a family of 4, have electric cooking and oil heat, plus our computers are on most of the time (home office).
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Re: Electricity - how much do you use? Pay?

Post by JohnCuthbert »

Here in the UK I am paying the equivalent of $0.18 per KWHr up to 182 KWHr then $0.12 for any more.
There is also 5% VAT added.
I'm not sure how much power I generally use because my gas fired heating is broken at the minute and I'm using a lot more electricity than usual. Also, they keep estimating my consumption (because I'm not here to let them in to read the meter). When I 'phone them up to let them know the real figure they have to re-adjust the bill. This makes life a bit complex.
It seems like another example of "rip-off" Brittain".
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Richard Hull
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Re: Electricity - how much do you use? Pay?

Post by Richard Hull »

Thanks to all continuing to contribute to this effort. We have a high of 18 cents for Great Britain to the 10-12 cents or more for CA and Hungary to 5-7 cents for VA, NC, and a low of 3-4 cents for Oregon State.

Still too early to compute a national average, but I bet it is about 8-9 cents/kwh.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Re: Electricity - how much do you use? Pay?

Post by davidtrimmell »

Richard, if the 3-4 cents was from my post I am in Oregon, not Washington. I think rates may be simular in Washington though.

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Re: Electricity - how much do you use? Pay?

Post by Adam Szendrey »

Prices here are then closer to GB, there is a 25 % VAT (yea i know, it's outrageously high...) on electricity, with that a kWh costs around 16 cents here, 13 c/kWh is without VAT.
In GB, with 5 % VAT added , electricity then costs almost 19 c/kWh (up to 182 kWh as John pointed out), that is indeed high, but the standard of living in GB, and the average salary, is above that of Hungary.
Ofcourse companies and such, get VAT back, so they pay less for electricity. Though above a certain consumption you have to buy a certain amount (like MWhs). I heard of a pumping station that consumes about 2 MW of power, and they have to buy electricity in advance monthly, if they exceed the amount bought, they have to pay a certain multiply (i'm not sure if twice of four times the amount) of standard billing...

Adam
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Re: Electricity - how much do you use? Pay?

Post by MARK-HARRISS »

Here in Queensland Australia, it's USD$0.0875 per KW/Hr. This is from a state owned power authority. It was privatised a few years back as they were following (of all things) the Californian power model, which would be a boon to all with unlimited cheap privatised power, curiously the politicians have been quiet lately although I have trouble understanding how selling a money making asset can be good for a government.

Mark Harriss
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Re: Electricity - how much do you use? Pay?

Post by Jon Rosenstiel »

Update:

Just received my bill for the months of September and October (08/26 thru 10/26). Average over the two month period was 58 kWh/day, 1740kWh/month.

I found this interesting… Enclosed with our bill was a breakdown of where the city of Anaheim gets its power.

Eligible renewables*..… 1%
Coal…………………….73%
Large hydroelectric…….4%
Natural gas……………...7%
Nuclear…………………15%

*Eligible renewables consist of: Biomass and waste, Geothermal, Small hydroelectric, Solar, and Wind.

Jon Rosenstiel
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Richard Hull
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Re: Electricity - how much do you use? Pay?

Post by Richard Hull »

It is still a coal burnin' world for the most part, as we have about 300 years of th' stuff left on hand. If we don't wise up and go back to making fission plants, we will be making coal plants as oil and natural gas peter out.Solar will be good when they cross the 80% efficiency line, assuming the costs are also held down.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Re: Electricity - how much do you use? Pay?

Post by MARK-HARRISS »

There's a proposal to build a 200MW solar chimney in Australia based on this 50 KW prototype built in Spain: http://www.solarserver.de/lexikon/aufwi ... erk-e.html

These solar chimneys run 24/7 due to thermal differences in the intake surface air and the exhaust which would have to be around a kilometer (5/8 mile) tall which is within reach of ferroconcrete construction techniques.
The system is only 2-3% efficient but it has a long life and low ongoing operational costs. There are people who think the efficiency can be improved with regeneration of the intake air.

I think it's well worth trying.
Mark Harriss
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Re: Electricity - how much do you use? Pay?

Post by ChrisSmolinski »

Sorry for the late entry. Here in Maryland (BGE utility) we're on a time of day/
season service, so the rates vary. 3 to 8 cents per kWhr, plus a 2 cent per
"distribution" charge. Lower rates in the winter than summer. Then there's the
$12 a month flat fee as well, which you need to factor in to find a fully
burdened kW/hr rate. I would say our bill runs around $100 a month in the
spring/fall to $160 in the summer/winter, when the AC and heat are used.
And I keep the thermostat set to 73F year-round. This is for an all-electric
house, including the well pump. Along with the less than desirable heat pump
in the winter. They probably work a lot better down in Richmond than up here.
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