Although not an ion gun per say...plasma gun.

For the design and construction details of ion guns, necessary for more advanced designs and lower vacuums.
Starfire
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Re: Although not an ion gun per say...plasma gun.

Post by Starfire »

Capture is easy - use an inverted glass or ceramic bowl. Keeping it alive is another matter.

http://jlnlabs.imars.com/plasma/gmrtst/index.htm

http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s520317.htm
Q
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Re: Although not an ion gun per say...plasma gun.

Post by Q »

well, for this project i'm not trying to cause fusion, nor really come up with anything immediately useful. it just sounds fun. you know, a nice ball of plasma rocketing up into the air for a few tenths of a second. : )
though the expiriance could definately be useful later on.

Q
shojidoug
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Re: Although not an ion gun per say...plasma gun.

Post by shojidoug »

Going through the early post on this subject I found this little tidbit by the esteemed Larry Leins "They never hit the ground unless they hit something to reflect them like a power line!"
So it would appear that something as simple as 3 rings charged with AC current arranged in a globe type configuration (2 smaller ones on the ends one larger in the middle) might be enough to hold it steady, that gives you 3 seconds to pump it with something before it dies maybe a stream of plasma containing the enhancing agents he talked about earlier or maybe E.M.P. would be enough. Any one else have any ideas?
Thanks
Doug
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Mark Rowley
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Re: Although not an ion gun per say...plasma gun.

Post by Mark Rowley »

I just recieved the book today. It only has a quick reference to this topic. It specifically points to a 1963 article by Scientific American titled "Shock Waves and High Temperatures. The article was written by Malcolm McChesney. Maybe with a little digging, someone can unearth this article.

BTW, I recommend the book( Termperatures Very Low and Very High). It covers just about everything in thermodynamics and provides diagrams of many different related(and obscure) devices. The last chapter titled "Beyond Infinity to Negative Temperatures" is especially interesting.

Thanks again Larry for book reference !

On the capturing and feeding of these plasma balls. Prior to my fusor endeavor, I was experimenting quite a bit with the microwave plasma phenomenon. I was able to capture the balls in pyrex jars and keep them going for 30 seconds. Beyond that, I usually had containment failure(glass shattering). I found that a continuous feed of carbon(smoke) would keep a MW Plasma alive for a long time. However, this required the plasma to constantly be saturated with high energy MW's. As soon as the MW power is shut off, the plasma instantly evaporates. As a result, I would doubt that the Leidenfrost Effect is in play here as it is with the plasma gun. From what I can now see, I dont think there are many similarities between the MW plasma and the plasma from this gun design.

Being that this plasma gun creates something of a much greater temperature(500,000K *per the book), I am not sure how long you could keep it going w/out containment failure. Maybe if the ball was shot vertically into a bell jar pumped full of a gas medium it would last longer. Very interesting project.

Mark Rowley
steffan
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Re: Although not an ion gun per say...plasma gun.

Post by steffan »

Can the mains arc be substituted by a neon sign transformer?
apollo
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Re: Although not an ion gun per say...plasma gun.

Post by apollo »

Hi there
You made reference to a wire suspended 1/2" below the arc. Did you forget this on your diagram? Also, how many volts should it be, and wouldn't it be more efficient to use one or two good magnets, positive side up?
-Liam Bowen
3l
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Re: Although not an ion gun per say...plasma gun.

Post by 3l »

Hi Liam:

That wire creates a mirror magnetic field that does the actual repulsion. To get a really good result the discharge voltage should be at least 2kv.

Happy Fusoring!
Larry Leins
Fusor tech
dmills
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Re: Although not an ion gun per say...plasma gun.

Post by dmills »

Sounds like a job for a Compulsator (compensated pulsed
alternator). These also look kind of cool for a Z pinch rig.

Serious current pulses from stored kinetic energy!
Just remember the reaction torque on the stator when the thing
is triggered!

http://www.utexas.edu/research/cem/prog ... ed_ac.html

Just dreaming!

Regards, Dan.
gopher
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Re: Although not an ion gun per say...plasma gun.

Post by gopher »

So... has anyone yet constructed this device (besides Mr. Leins)? If so, please share the results!
Q
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Re: Although not an ion gun per say...plasma gun.

Post by Q »

i did, but i was not successful. i kept having mechanical issues with the carbon electrodes... i couldn't find a way to keep them secure. so, i got some nice arcs, but every time i discharged the cap, the electrodes would be blown out of the device.
i donno, is a .15uf 35kv cap to big?

Q
3l
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Re: Although not an ion gun per say...plasma gun.

Post by 3l »

Hi Q:

I would start smaller than that value capacitor.
To hold the electrodes really tight curtain tube rods work well.
Ive even used arc welding electrodes firmly mounted.
When using rod make a "v" with the two rods just like a jacobs ladder but space them so the arc stays put.
This way the recoil is less on the electrodes and the plasma flies away fast and hard.

Happy Fusoring!
Larry Leins
Fusor Tech
Q
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Re: Although not an ion gun per say...plasma gun.

Post by Q »

thanks, larry!
i have been re-planning this expiriment... think i'll go down to a nice 90j cap instead. i'll also be using larger electrodes; the 3/16" carbon rod i was using seemed to detonate at the power level i was using. poor planning on my part.

Q
charlie_mccartney
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Re: Although not an ion gun per say...plasma gun.

Post by charlie_mccartney »

I know this topic has been dead for a long time but what ever happened? Does anyone have any pictures or videos of one of these?
Charlie McCartney
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Richard Hull
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Re: Although not an ion gun per say...plasma gun.

Post by Richard Hull »

This whole thread risks deletion! This is not a fusion usable ion gun and therefore is under consideration for deletion. I'll give a day or so and all the thread is probably gone. Fusion related guys and fusion only. This is not a fireball cannon DIY site.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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