Glassman 4kw supply on ebay - if you have 3-phase...

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kbonin
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Glassman 4kw supply on ebay - if you have 3-phase...

Post by kbonin »

Here's the unit : http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 32720&rd=1

Link to this family page at Glassman : http://www.glassmanhv.com/ByWattage/pk_series.shtml

Wish the place I'm in had 3-phase... (nerdly sigh)
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Re: Glassman 4kw supply on ebay - if you have 3-phase...

Post by guest »

You can buy 1PH to 3PH convertors. Search on www.use-enco.com or other machine tool distributers. While I don't think you'll find a 4KW unit, I do believe they sell 2KW well under $1000.00 I think the 1KW units sell for about $300.00.


Kerry Bonin wrote:
> Here's the unit : http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 32720&rd=1
>
> Link to this family page at Glassman : http://www.glassmanhv.com/ByWattage/pk_series.shtml
>
> Wish the place I'm in had 3-phase... (nerdly sigh)
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Richard Hull
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Re: Glassman 4kw supply on ebay - if you have 3-phase...

Post by Richard Hull »

Warning!!!

Does this supply have a stack?!!! I don't see it in the photos!

How many of you really believe that little PL-259 HV connector in back is gonna give you that 75kv @100 ma?

I gotta a bridge in Brooklyn I can give you a deal on.

Either the seller is truly ignorant of what he has and doesn't know the real HV item is missing or the stack is there and he isn't showing it. The stack is far too STUD an item not to picture! ZOWIE if the stack was shown, but NO he shows its frumpy ole power converter/controller.


Now you will note that he states what is pictured is what he is selling. So you may just be buying the controller!!!!

Too Bad You never know on E-bay. Ignorant stupid sellers coupled with ignorant stupid buyers face off against smart like a fox sellers and con-men sellers, followed by a herd of fleeced lambs who bought from a precisely and cleverly pitched item. Threats and counter threats fly in feedback as the rose tinted glasses come off and the shorn sheep can't get their money back.

When lethal crap like this goes surplus, companies often bust it up so that NO ONE will come back to them with a suit having killed themselves. This fellow may have got the controller and some other surplus dude in Moab Utah has the stack.

The only thing this guy promises in his warranty is that the item pitured is warranted to function. It is probably in perfect operating condition, too. It just needs the other half of its entourage, the real go juice part, the HV multipler stack. Look at the image of the sales sheet.(to the left)

You don't get 75 KV out of the back of a rack!

Where's th' beef!!


Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Richard Hester
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Re: Glassman 4kw supply on ebay - if you have 3-phase...

Post by Richard Hester »

Maybe, maybe not - I have a 60kV, 1.5ma Spellman supply that uses the butchered UHF connector. I would want to use something besides RG-8 or whatever for the cable, though. It's really all academic, as the supply has a dedicated positive output that would be pretty useless for fusor work. I have a Hipotronics power pack that is much more useful, as the outputs are floating. I also have a mysterious Spellman unit that may be the HV driver for a multiplier stack. There are a couple of banana jacks mounted in a plastic plate on the top. I refuse to even pry off the cover of that monstrosity until way after I finish moving.
kbonin
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Re: Glassman 4kw supply on ebay - if you have 3-phase...

Post by kbonin »

FWIW, I checked out this family line on Glassman's website and did a little sanity checking of my own before I posted this, I was wondering the same thing...

The front panel in the picture says "series PK". According to the datasheets, there are 18 open (external) stack models in this series, and 31 fully enclosed rack models. The rack mount models provide up to 125kV, the open stack models provide 150-400kV.

The seller stated "0-75kV", and "reversable". The model PK57R50 seems to match this (0-75kV, 0-50mA), which is a 10.5 high rack mount device. The HV output looks like a PL-259 connector, but from the pics you can see that it is a deep hole. Glassman has custom versions connectors for this, from their site: "The standard Glassman HV connector system used above 6kV employs a deep well tube with a spring-loaded contact. The depth of the connector varies with the voltage level and is designed so that the supply cannot be operated without the mating cable inserted and personnel cannot come in contact with dangerous voltages. We also terminate the shield of the mating cable at the chassis for safety."

So while I certainly agree in principal w/ Richard Hull's post, I'd like to point out that while I have no connection w/ either the eBay seller (if I did they wouldn't be selling it :) or Glassman, this sale did look legitimate, or I certainly wouldn't have posted it here...

Kerry "Due Diligance, or at least Overly Defensive" Bonin :)
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Re: Glassman 4kw supply on ebay - if you have 3-phase...

Post by Frank Sanns »

Looks like this week's "Wet Blanket" award goes to Richard.
Achiever's madness; when enough is still not enough. ---FS
We have to stop looking at the world through our physical eyes. The universe is NOT what we see. It is the quantum world that is real. The rest is just an electron illusion. ---FS
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Richard Hull
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Re: Glassman 4kw supply on ebay - if you have 3-phase...

Post by Richard Hull »

I have several of those stacks and HV supplies lying about the lab.

The wet blanket is hopefully a security blanket not just here but for anyone looking at deals on E-bay for really super high voltage systems. It's always, buyer beware.

The super HV controllers usually like to swallow three phase current and then FET or IGBT bridge and oscillate this stuff to a 20khz signal of many amps RF behind it and drive a monster ferrite transformer. This now stepped up, super nasty, but still cable friendly 5-10kv is used to feed the base of an external multiplier stack.

I also have Spellman/glassman 20-40kv supplies where 5ma is the max output (like Richard Hester) and they do indeed put out the full volatge through that little PL-259 with the long snouted, special cable.

BUT 75KV at 60 ma? Maybe they have beefed the thing up a bit. (a big bit) Folks not used to regularly working with such lethal and potent HV, high energy sources often can't see why it is not just a matter of hooking up to a simple output terminal. One little dampness or arc in that little micro tunnel and you would be buying a brand new terminal block, connector and cable.

Large stuff like this item puts out, they normally send to a toroid for field control in air via a stack directly and let the end user figure out how to get the sauce to where they need it.

One last thing. Any one here thinking of bidding on this? Got three phase? Still, it is interesting to see this stuff show up on the same site that sells fiestaware and douche bags.

E-bay is a grand dichotomy. It can be stunningly wonderful or the saddest experience you may even have.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Re: Glassman 4kw supply on ebay - if you have 3-phase...

Post by Richard Hester »

My basic point was that I have a 60kV supply that also uses a modified UHF connector on the outside. More important is the insulation on the cable and the connection made inside a deep well in the power supply case. The UHF connector shell may simply be to hold the cable in place, while the actual ground connection is made to a chassis stud. Traditionally, the shield was stripped back from a length of RG-8 coax, and a banana plug was soldered to the center conductor for the actual HV connection, with the coax braided shield acting as a ground connection, and to help even out the field distribution. A traditional place for the insulation to break down is at the point where the braid is pushed back from the center insulation, because of the concentration of electric field.. An insulating bushing pushed between braid and insulation at this point may help the problem. Voltages such as 60kV may require more robust cable insulation. Rowe Industries and Caton make silicone insulated cables with "dongle" type silicone molded connectors for very high voltage applications. The silicone insulation is much more flexible than the usual large coax or X-ray type cable.
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Re: Glassman 4kw supply on ebay - if you have 3-phase...

Post by ningauble »

Whats a safe voltage for RG-8 ??

Mark Harriss
Richard Hester
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Re: Glassman 4kw supply on ebay - if you have 3-phase...

Post by Richard Hester »

Reynolds Industries has a connector series that they use with RG-8 (or preferrably RG-213) for voltages up tp 25kV. They test the cable assemblies at 28kV. I also found a site that markets a small X-ray system that uses RG-8 for HV interconnects for voltages up to 50kV. I suspect that this is a bit extreme (hot-dogger and daredevil territory), and that a more practical limit is around 30kV or so.
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Brian McDermott
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Another control unit?

Post by Brian McDermott »

Is this an actual supply or just another control unit?


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... gory=32720
Richard Hester
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Re: Another control unit?

Post by Richard Hester »

That's a good question. I see a connector for a control cable, but also see a well-type connector that may be a Federal HV socket. Best to ask the seller some well-honed questions and perhaps ask for a few more detail pictures.
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Re: Another control unit?

Post by Brian McDermott »

The seller said it was indeed a HV power supply (30kv, 150 uA {15ma}), with a single phase input of 110 volts. It has a positive bias, but he claims that a simple internal wiring change can make it negaitve. He also posted a new picture of the internal wiring.
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Richard Hull
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Re: Glassman 4kw supply on ebay - if you have 3-phase...

Post by Richard Hull »

I'll bet that this is the real thing as that well output looks beefy enough to handle the full 30kv with ease.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Re: Glassman 4kw supply on ebay - if you have 3-phase...

Post by plasmann »

I think it might be part of the real thing. I talked to Glassman about the supply and they confirmed my skepticisim about it not being complete. The seller claims it is 0-75kV @ 100mA, but then says it's 4000W. The only unit that glassman sells like this uses two 4kw chassis to get the 100mA current rating. The label on the master supply will have the 75kV @ 100mA rating on the tag though. It is probably the master driver of the other 4kW slave that doesn't seem to be included. They warned me that the supply still might not function as a stand alone because it might be missing feedback signals from the slave unit, if it is indeed a 100mA unit. Also the seler says it is reverseable polarity, which it is, but does not offer the the opposite polarity stack so that one can change it(if you don't have the opposite HV assembly, your stuck with what you got), also he does not specify what polarity it is set up for, which means you will be stuck with using ion sources or grids. Also the seller does not specify input power rating, but it looks like he has it wired to single phase(two hots and a ground), which would be a PKCP model rated for 220VAC, or it could be a three phase model that someone tried hooking up to single phase, but the seller does not state the model # or the options. I have e-mailed the seller multiple times asking what the model # is, and about the other issues I just brought up, but he never responds. His warranty is only for parts and labor, not necessarly a complete unit, so it might be a perfectly functional component of a larger system, that does not function standalone. No doubt this is the supply to have, assuming it is complete and the polarity you want, and power input you have.

Mike Amann
kbonin
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Re: Glassman 4kw supply on ebay - if you have 3-phase...

Post by kbonin »

Let me add to this - the power cable shown in the pictures does appear to be a normal single phase cable - and I'm pretty sure its not the correct cable.

On the other hand, if you download the PK family docs, it seems to match the unit shown, which is an entirely rack mounted unit.

On the other other hand, he's now claiming 0-75kV and 0-100mA, and the front panel in the picture still says "Series PK"... Glassman also has a fully enclosed model that delivers this - the PK75R100 is the reversable version, its 21" tall. Given a rack mount panel of 19", the aspect ration in the picture doesn't look right for that to be the model...

Some Glassman supplies will allow driving the output to voltage/current combinations so long as the total power output doesn't exceed the unit maximum, so it may still be possible, I only have the family docs and not the manuals...

I dunno - I'm pretty sure the power cable shown in the picture won't work, nothing in the docs says anything other than 3-phase. I also don't see the assembly to reverse the polarity, although I don't know if this is stored inside the case or not, I haven't been fortunate enough to be able to play with on of these yet - just been parked at the top of my wishlist for a few years...

I still think its a PK57R50, and the picture now shows an output cable, which was one major concern - that could easily cost more than the units ebay cost if you ordered it from Glassman. FWIW, if I had 3-phase at my bench, I'd still already have this unit on its way to me...
kbonin
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Re: Glassman 4kw supply on ebay - if you have 3-phase...

Post by kbonin »

Its now up for the third time (that I know of) at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 2554864620

This time its listed as 0-75kV, 0-25mA, but STILL no model number. The seller has also raised the minimum opening bid to $1000...

I checked the sellers transaction history - they were almost entirely purchases, allmost entirely very cheap electronics components. The few sales were mostly cheap items. FWIW, given the change in opening bid and this history, I now retract my "I'd buy" position without inspecting the equipment personally first...
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Re: Glassman 4kw supply on ebay - if you have 3-phase...

Post by Richard Hester »

The bottom line is, I wouldn't buy an expensive item like the Glassman supply if the seller refuses to reveal the model number. It sounds extremely fishy to me.
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