The Fusor Takes a Roadtrip

[Jonathan Moulton]

I know some of you have wanted to know the status of the Fusor from the ITT project and its documents. I thought there was no better time than a polar vortex and went to LA to pick up the Fusors, they are now in Pittsburgh with me again.

Now begins the process of doing something with it. I know there are many opinions on this site about the project at ITT, the contributions of those involved, and the value of revisiting the work. There is a history here that needs to be preserved, much like any other project of the past. That is where my focus begins.

I submit:

[JoeBallantyne]

Glad you brought the hardware and the documents and data back home.

Would have been a tragedy if it had all ended up in a dumpster (or in smoke...)

Joe.

[Richard Hull]

Like Joe, I am glad to know the whereabouts of the last Cave fusor and that it is in safe hands. I have listened to the early 2000 gathering that Paul posted with Ken and Gene Meeks and others gathered. Poor Gene had to explain the extreme difficulty of restoring that device to full function again. All the others at that gathering were so hoping to get it going again with fusion stars in their eyes. It was kind of sad to hear all the others present who had never done fusion in there life be told by Gene, who had done fusion, and worked in the ITT effort with Bob Hirsch just what needed to be done and how much it might take to bring it back to life.

With my in person interview and numerous phone calls up until 2012 with Bob Hirsch still proved he had a positive view of and need for more serious work on the electrostatic fusion concept.


Richard Hull

[Paul_Schatzkin]

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I am also relieved that the Fusor Archive has been retrieved and has found safe keeping.

I spoke with Jonathan yesterday and he assured me that the retrieved archive includes everything pictured from the last time we all assembled at Phil Savenick's house in January, 2020. That includes the very first iteration of the fusor, the bell jar model we called "the little guy" and, as Richard notes above, the last 'cave' fusor.
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Jonathan also has the 'spherical multipactor' that Farnsworth constructed in the 1930s, which might be an historical artifact in its own right.
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The spherical multipactor from 1930... something

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That hand written letter from Hirsch in 2001 I've not seen before, nor the document entitled "Wrong Fusion!" That I'd like to see more of.

And, as Frank suggested when we spoke a week or so ago, it might be time to contact Hirsch again to see if he still adheres to those sentiments (in light of all the new approaches that are getting all kinds of funding these days).

And: I haven't sprung for the Fusion X conference registration fee, but I did make reservations to fly out there next month just in case. The airfare is refundable, the ~$2K conference fee not so much.

I'd feel better about making the trip if I had somebody who along could speak to the technical issues.

I'm also leery of 'showing our hand' but... if this 'revisiting' is gonna happen, it's gotta start somewhere.

--PS

[Jonathan Moulton]

Glad you brought the hardware and the documents and data back home.

Would have been a tragedy if it had all ended up in a dumpster (or in smoke...)

Joe.

The fires had me worried, but Kevin did well to keep everything safe. I wouldn't have let them go to the dumpster I can assure you.

Like Joe, I am glad to know the whereabouts of the last Cave fusor and that it is in safe hands. I have listened to the early 2000 gathering that Paul posted with Ken and Gene Meeks and others gathered. Poor Gene had to explain the extreme difficulty of restoring that device to full function again. All the others at that gathering were so hoping to get it going again with fusion stars in their eyes. It was kind of sad to hear all the others present who had never done fusion in there life be told by Gene, who had done fusion, and worked in the ITT effort with Bob Hirsch just what needed to be done and how much it might take to bring it back to life.

With my in person interview and numerous phone calls up until 2012 with Bob Hirsch still proved he had a positive view of and need for more serious work on the electrostatic fusion concept.

I would be greatly interested in hearing where Hirsch stands on the issue today. I believe focusing on bringing a 60 year old fusor to life isn't the best first step. But taking the time to study what is available here, run small experiments to test theories, and justify taking a project to scale, if it ever could be.

This is the last of the ITT project and for the sake of history, I'd like to make sure it has its footnote in history and the world knows of Dr. Farnsworth for more than just TV, (Still working on that one a bit) and that every member of that project is recognized for their amazing contributions.

[Richard Hull]

I have lost Bob's phone number. I assume he is still alive. The last time I talked, he was living in an apartment. What is the probability he is still there? He would be at least 87 now assuming he was 26 as a newly minted PhD in 1964 when he joined the ITT team. (Assumes that from high school at 18 or 19 he took 4 years for his BS and another 4 years through his MS and his PhD.)

Bob worked for a number of companies over his career, plus his time at AEC/NRC controlling the Government's fusion effort.

Richard Hull

[Frank Sanns]

Very happy the archive has been relocated here in Pittsburgh. Thank you from all of us Jonathan!


Paul, I have no problem going to the conference and paying my own way including the $2k entrance fee. HOWEVER, what is to be gained? What is the goal? What would be the purpose?

I am all in if there is a plan but I personally have no desire to listen to ho hum presentations and pie in the sky aspirations. I also REALLY hate to listen through rigorous calculations to show a result which gets no closer to the goal. Qualitative is good enough for those of us that know fusion. We have enough experience to know what will work and what will not without following smoke and mirror maths. Cut to the chase. I do not require rigorous calculation if the goal is a half dozen or more magnitudes away from reality.

I will ask again, what is that we would offer or require to justify a trip. If your goal is to just make some industry and government contacts, I think it would be a good opportunity. But there has to be some meat from our end.

I would be happy to push for the Fusor and Phil’s path but I have to disclose that I am also interested in other paths not yet disclosed. This may or may not be a conflict of interest but I need to mention that at this point.

[Paul_Schatzkin]

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Paul, I have no problem going to the conference and paying my own way including the $2k entrance fee. HOWEVER, what is to be gained? What is the goal? What would be the purpose?

To find the "first follower."

Have a look at this video and and you'll see what I mean:

Derek Sivers' – 'How to Start a Movement'

Translation: I'm looking for that ONE person with the money to – not burn, but earmark, donate, invest – who agrees that "this approach needs to be reconsidered," who has the 'rolodex' (there's an antiquated term!) to introduce and persuade others to get on board.

Or... maybe somebody to take enough hits from the pipe that I've been puffing on all these years to see things from a very different perspective than what the orthodoxy demands.

Just. ONE. person.
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I am all in if there is a plan but I personally have no desire to listen to ho hum presentations and pie in the sky aspirations. I also REALLY hate to listen through rigorous calculations to show a result which gets no closer to the goal.

I likewise have little interest in ho hum, pie in the sky and rigorous calculations, all of which would be lost on me anyway. I'm tempted to think we could do just as well forgoing the actual conference/events and lurking about the perimeter, though I don't know how we'd 'penetrate the defenses' so to speak. I imagine a name badge that says "Waterstar Project" might be a conversation starter, though ~4K for two name badges does seem like a pricey ticket.

We've been carrying this torch for 25+ years now. I just can't get past the belief - and I know it's a technically uninformed belief – that this has been kept alive for some... reason . I just think maybe it's time to see if we can find somebody with the resources to take a flyer on a leap of faith.

--PS

[JoeBallantyne]

I don't think it is realistic to think that someone is going to throw money into an "open source fusor research consortium". It ain't gonna happen.

Especially not your typical Silicon Valley investors. They are going to want to meet a founder, or founders, of an existing company that is for profit, that is shooting for Q>1 power grid fusion, who are extremely technical, and who have already done fusion at Q levels and power levels that are orders of magnitude better than everyone here excluding one person (two if you count his partner).

That person, who is extremely technical, and is the founder of a fusion company - Nucleon Power - with a goal to do Q>1 power grid fusion, is Joe Gayo.

Or perhaps I should more accurately say is Garrett Young. I think it is likely correct to say, that he knows more about doing high levels of fusion than everyone else here combined.

Garrett would have a decent chance of starting the process to raise money for his company there at that conference - especially if he uses his real name and not an alias.

Anyone else? Not so much. Save your $2k + travel expenses.

My 2 cents.

Joe.

[Paul_Schatzkin]

Save your $2k + travel expenses.
My 2 cents.

Considering the ROI, that advice might be worth a whole nickel!

--P

[Richard Hull]

Joe just showed his gravity boots!! (Don't waste th' bread on the conference and no one with big money and any degree of fusion competence and knowledge will fund a pie-in-the-sky IECF venture on a lark.)

Tom Ligon told me he was Doc Bussard's gravity boots.(Doc bussard was a theorist and not an engineer. He often asked Tom to do this or that which was not possible with current technology, Doc feeling it ought to be able to be done.)

The beauty of the human mind is that it can imagine and dream up things that seem doable. In the case of fusion, it is, in reality, quite easy to do. However, making it PAY MONEY, (become a useful controlled source of virtually endless energy is still off in that dream mode in spite of all the startups, NIF, ITER and all the king's horses and all the king's men.)

Gravity boots are not designed to limit us but to keep us from floating off into a fantasy, where the sky is always blue, the earth green and unicorns abound.

Iknow fusion energy is the future, but for the moment, it effectively, always will be, based on these eyes armed with the knowledge as to what makes fusion actually happen in a power ready sense..

Bob Hirsch, once in total charge of the U.S. fusion effort could not get any money to fund a serious IECF effort. Best of luck at the efforts of Paul in his tilting at the IECF windmill.

Richard Hull