Kozyvacu TA-500 Adapter
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- Posts: 16
- Joined: Mon May 06, 2024 11:11 am
- Real name: Kaden Daya
- Location: Toronto, Canada
Kozyvacu TA-500 Adapter
Hello,
On the Kozyvacu TA-500 listing it says that the two adapters on it are a 1/4" Flare and a 1/2" Flare however when I tried to connect it the 1/4" Flare fitted fine to my 1/4" vaccume gauge however when I attemped to connect the 1/2" flare to my forline the adapter is way to small to be 1/2" Flare I tried a 3/8", 1/2", 3/4", 1/4" and a 1/8" flare yet none fitted it's too big to be a 1/4" yet too small to fit 3/8" I though it could be a 5/16" but I couldent find a 5/16 flare anywhere so I am coming here to ask, why would Kozyvacu like on their listing about the "1/2" port but not the 1/4" and does anyone who has a TA500 know what the port is and where I can find it.
Also the port seens to fit a 1/4" NPT on it but not a good seal at all pulling down to 70,000 or so micron.
K.D.
On the Kozyvacu TA-500 listing it says that the two adapters on it are a 1/4" Flare and a 1/2" Flare however when I tried to connect it the 1/4" Flare fitted fine to my 1/4" vaccume gauge however when I attemped to connect the 1/2" flare to my forline the adapter is way to small to be 1/2" Flare I tried a 3/8", 1/2", 3/4", 1/4" and a 1/8" flare yet none fitted it's too big to be a 1/4" yet too small to fit 3/8" I though it could be a 5/16" but I couldent find a 5/16 flare anywhere so I am coming here to ask, why would Kozyvacu like on their listing about the "1/2" port but not the 1/4" and does anyone who has a TA500 know what the port is and where I can find it.
Also the port seens to fit a 1/4" NPT on it but not a good seal at all pulling down to 70,000 or so micron.
K.D.
- Rich Gorski
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- Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2022 4:34 pm
- Real name: Rich Gorski
- Location: Illinois
Re: Kozyvacu TA-500 Adapter
70,000 microns is a huge leak. Your only pulling to 1/10 of an atmosphere.
Let's take things one at a time. First you mentioned that the 1/4 flare fit well on your vacuum gauge so leave that connected. Next close off the 1/2 flare fitting with the plastic cap that came with the pump. It has an o-ring inside that should seal that connection off. Then turn on the pump and see what vacuum you can pull after say 20 minutes. If the pump stops going down at 70,000 Torr then stop the pump so its not damaged by getting too hot. If this is the case your 1/4" vacuum connection has a leak and needs to be debugged before you go any further.
Rich G.
Ps. The 1/2" flare connection according to the manual is an 1/2" ACME male thread. You will need a 1/2" ACME female adapter to properly connect to it. A 1/2" NPT thread is not the same and likely will not work.
Let's take things one at a time. First you mentioned that the 1/4 flare fit well on your vacuum gauge so leave that connected. Next close off the 1/2 flare fitting with the plastic cap that came with the pump. It has an o-ring inside that should seal that connection off. Then turn on the pump and see what vacuum you can pull after say 20 minutes. If the pump stops going down at 70,000 Torr then stop the pump so its not damaged by getting too hot. If this is the case your 1/4" vacuum connection has a leak and needs to be debugged before you go any further.
Rich G.
Ps. The 1/2" flare connection according to the manual is an 1/2" ACME male thread. You will need a 1/2" ACME female adapter to properly connect to it. A 1/2" NPT thread is not the same and likely will not work.
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- Real name: Kaden Daya
- Location: Toronto, Canada
Re: Kozyvacu TA-500 Adapter
Sorry for the misunderstanding I know that it says it’s a 1/2 Flare but none of the flares I tried fitted. Also with just the vacuumed gauge and cap attached I can put to a good 5 micron or so in 5 minutes and around 3-4 in 20 minutes.
- Rich Gorski
- Posts: 247
- Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2022 4:34 pm
- Real name: Rich Gorski
- Location: Illinois
Re: Kozyvacu TA-500 Adapter
Kaden,
Good vacuum level.
I think you will need these two adapters, ¼” flare to ¼” NPT, ¼” NPT to KF25 and a flexible KF25 hose to connect to the fore line connector on the turbo. The next step would be to decide where to put the vacuum gauge. I would put the gauge on one of the ports on the 4 way cross with some adapters and a Tee which could also be where the deuterium gas connection is. I think this is a good place to measure pressure since its near where the plasma is generated. If you put the gauge in the fore line then you won’t get an accurate reading of the actual pressure in the cross when the turbo is running. However if you don’t plan on running the turbo then placing the gauge in the fore line is fine. You will still need the items below.
Your decision on where to mount the vacuum gauge will determine what Tee and other adapters are needed for the vacuum gauge.
Rich G.
https://www.amazon.com/LASCO-17-6783-4- ... B008E5CUFG
https://www.amazon.com/QMINOX-Female-Ad ... B0BCTYHJLJ
https://www.amazon.com/ISO-KF-Corrugate ... B093LPYCYF
Good vacuum level.
I think you will need these two adapters, ¼” flare to ¼” NPT, ¼” NPT to KF25 and a flexible KF25 hose to connect to the fore line connector on the turbo. The next step would be to decide where to put the vacuum gauge. I would put the gauge on one of the ports on the 4 way cross with some adapters and a Tee which could also be where the deuterium gas connection is. I think this is a good place to measure pressure since its near where the plasma is generated. If you put the gauge in the fore line then you won’t get an accurate reading of the actual pressure in the cross when the turbo is running. However if you don’t plan on running the turbo then placing the gauge in the fore line is fine. You will still need the items below.
Your decision on where to mount the vacuum gauge will determine what Tee and other adapters are needed for the vacuum gauge.
Rich G.
https://www.amazon.com/LASCO-17-6783-4- ... B008E5CUFG
https://www.amazon.com/QMINOX-Female-Ad ... B0BCTYHJLJ
https://www.amazon.com/ISO-KF-Corrugate ... B093LPYCYF
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- Posts: 16
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- Real name: Kaden Daya
- Location: Toronto, Canada
Re: Kozyvacu TA-500 Adapter
Sorry but, what’s the difference of a ACME thread and a SAE thread and where do I find and adapter.
- Rich Gorski
- Posts: 247
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- Real name: Rich Gorski
- Location: Illinois
Re: Kozyvacu TA-500 Adapter
Kaden,
The difference between ACME and SAE threads has to do with thread diameter, number of threads per inch, angle of the threads and thread shape (square or trapezoid). It gets complicated. Suffice it to say that you need to match whatever thread is on the pump to whatever thread is on the turbo with adapters.
To help you further I need to know more detail on what your trying to connect to what. Since you asked about ACME threads I assume your trying to connect to the vertical connector on the LA500 which is a 1/2" ACME male flare thread. To connect this to the turbo fore line port we have to use adapters to get from 1/2" ACME male to KF25 size. The issue here is that the LA500 pump has fitting for the HVAC industry and not the scientific industry. So finding proper adapters may be hard. Since we know there are adapters to connect to the 1/4" flare fitting on this pump it may be best to leave the 1/2" ACME capped and sealed and do everything from the 1/4" flare connector.
Please more detail.
Rich G.
The difference between ACME and SAE threads has to do with thread diameter, number of threads per inch, angle of the threads and thread shape (square or trapezoid). It gets complicated. Suffice it to say that you need to match whatever thread is on the pump to whatever thread is on the turbo with adapters.
To help you further I need to know more detail on what your trying to connect to what. Since you asked about ACME threads I assume your trying to connect to the vertical connector on the LA500 which is a 1/2" ACME male flare thread. To connect this to the turbo fore line port we have to use adapters to get from 1/2" ACME male to KF25 size. The issue here is that the LA500 pump has fitting for the HVAC industry and not the scientific industry. So finding proper adapters may be hard. Since we know there are adapters to connect to the 1/4" flare fitting on this pump it may be best to leave the 1/2" ACME capped and sealed and do everything from the 1/4" flare connector.
Please more detail.
Rich G.
- Rich Feldman
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- Real name: Rich Feldman
- Location: Santa Clara County, CA, USA
Re: Kozyvacu TA-500 Adapter
From catalog picture of pump, that 1/4"-flare and 1/2"-flare tee might have a NPT taper thread connection to the pump body.
That would open up options where the factory tee is replaced with adapter of your choice.
Now here's a question which might be regarded as lazy because I have not attempted to read the manual.
What happens when pump is turned off while connected to evacuated apparatus?
Is there an integral valve to prevent oil from being sucked into the hose?
Are such valves generally reliable? If system were kept under vacuum for weeks, with pump off, how much oil could migrate into the plumbing between pump and the user's shutoff valve?
That would open up options where the factory tee is replaced with adapter of your choice.
Now here's a question which might be regarded as lazy because I have not attempted to read the manual.
What happens when pump is turned off while connected to evacuated apparatus?
Is there an integral valve to prevent oil from being sucked into the hose?
Are such valves generally reliable? If system were kept under vacuum for weeks, with pump off, how much oil could migrate into the plumbing between pump and the user's shutoff valve?
All models are wrong; some models are useful. -- George Box
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- Real name: Joe Ballantyne
- Location: Redmond, WA
Re: Kozyvacu TA-500 Adapter
Kaden -
Please pay attention to what Rich Gorski said, and do it. He gave you good advice.
Don't even try to use the vertical connector on the pump. Leave the plastic cover on it, and tighten it down gently (not too tight), so that it stays sealed off. The only thing you should use that vertical connector for, is to vent the pump just before shutting it down. Nothing else.
Buy the adapters Rich pointed you to (which are basically the same adapters I pointed folks to earlier), and use them to connect the pump to a KF bellows which then connects to your turbo outlet. Is your turbo outlet KF16 or KF25? You should get a bellows that has the same size KF connectors on it as your turbo, and then get a female 1/4 NPT to KF adapter that matches your bellows size. You will either have all KF16 connectors from Kozy to turbo, or you will have all KF25 connectors from Kozy to turbo. Depending on whether the KF connector on your turbo is KF16 or KF25.
If you try to screw the wrong kind of connector (ie a standard NPT fitting) onto EITHER ONE of the two standard HVAC connections on the Kozyvacu pump, you will only mess up the threads and make yourself more problems. Neither one of the pump connectors has NPT threads. DO NOT attempt to force an NPT connector on them. It won't work, and will only damage the connectors. Possibly making them unusable or unable to make a good vacuum seal. Do NOT overtighten the proper flare connector either. The 45 degree angled sealing face is a metal to metal seal, and you should only tighten it about 1/8th of a turn or so past finger tight. Neither of the two brass connectors on the pump body should have any kind of sealant or tape on the threads. You need to make sure you assemble the flare to 1/4 MNPT connector to the 1/4 FNPT to KF adapter BEFORE you connect the flare adapter to the pump.
I would NOT try to remove the two connection adapter that is screwed into the pump. It is in very tight, and is likely sealed with some kind of permanent sealant. If you take that out, you may end up not being ever able to pull a good vacuum with that pump. Leave the pump setup as it came in the box.
Just listen, and follow the advice you have been given.
I made some very detailed posts that explained exactly what you needed to do to setup the Kozyvacu TA500 pump. I suggest you go read them and do exactly what they say. I think one of them is in the vacuum FAQ. It explains pretty clearly how to assemble the flare to KF adapters.
See viewtopic.php?t=15463
Joe.
Please pay attention to what Rich Gorski said, and do it. He gave you good advice.
Don't even try to use the vertical connector on the pump. Leave the plastic cover on it, and tighten it down gently (not too tight), so that it stays sealed off. The only thing you should use that vertical connector for, is to vent the pump just before shutting it down. Nothing else.
Buy the adapters Rich pointed you to (which are basically the same adapters I pointed folks to earlier), and use them to connect the pump to a KF bellows which then connects to your turbo outlet. Is your turbo outlet KF16 or KF25? You should get a bellows that has the same size KF connectors on it as your turbo, and then get a female 1/4 NPT to KF adapter that matches your bellows size. You will either have all KF16 connectors from Kozy to turbo, or you will have all KF25 connectors from Kozy to turbo. Depending on whether the KF connector on your turbo is KF16 or KF25.
If you try to screw the wrong kind of connector (ie a standard NPT fitting) onto EITHER ONE of the two standard HVAC connections on the Kozyvacu pump, you will only mess up the threads and make yourself more problems. Neither one of the pump connectors has NPT threads. DO NOT attempt to force an NPT connector on them. It won't work, and will only damage the connectors. Possibly making them unusable or unable to make a good vacuum seal. Do NOT overtighten the proper flare connector either. The 45 degree angled sealing face is a metal to metal seal, and you should only tighten it about 1/8th of a turn or so past finger tight. Neither of the two brass connectors on the pump body should have any kind of sealant or tape on the threads. You need to make sure you assemble the flare to 1/4 MNPT connector to the 1/4 FNPT to KF adapter BEFORE you connect the flare adapter to the pump.
I would NOT try to remove the two connection adapter that is screwed into the pump. It is in very tight, and is likely sealed with some kind of permanent sealant. If you take that out, you may end up not being ever able to pull a good vacuum with that pump. Leave the pump setup as it came in the box.
Just listen, and follow the advice you have been given.
I made some very detailed posts that explained exactly what you needed to do to setup the Kozyvacu TA500 pump. I suggest you go read them and do exactly what they say. I think one of them is in the vacuum FAQ. It explains pretty clearly how to assemble the flare to KF adapters.
See viewtopic.php?t=15463
Joe.
Last edited by JoeBallantyne on Wed Oct 30, 2024 9:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
- Rich Feldman
- Posts: 1511
- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:59 pm
- Real name: Rich Feldman
- Location: Santa Clara County, CA, USA
Re: Kozyvacu TA-500 Adapter
Joe is talking about advice from Rich G., not me (other Rich).
As for Joe's later comment: I'm withdrawing my suggestion that the hybrid "tee" fitting which came with the pump might be replaced. Safer and more straightforward solutions have been presented by Joe and Rich G.
(Once upon a time I unscrewed the valve assembly from a 20-pound propane tank, revealing standard 3/4" NPT female thread. That had risk of destroying brass valve, because the factory thread sealant was so tough. Quiz question: suppose the tank were filled with water for hydro testing. Pressure could be raised to 200 psig by forcing in more water. How much do we need for elastic expansion of steel tank, compared to the amount for elastic compression of liquid water?)
As for Joe's later comment: I'm withdrawing my suggestion that the hybrid "tee" fitting which came with the pump might be replaced. Safer and more straightforward solutions have been presented by Joe and Rich G.
(Once upon a time I unscrewed the valve assembly from a 20-pound propane tank, revealing standard 3/4" NPT female thread. That had risk of destroying brass valve, because the factory thread sealant was so tough. Quiz question: suppose the tank were filled with water for hydro testing. Pressure could be raised to 200 psig by forcing in more water. How much do we need for elastic expansion of steel tank, compared to the amount for elastic compression of liquid water?)
All models are wrong; some models are useful. -- George Box