Tin Foil Hat Time?

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Paul_Schatzkin
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Tin Foil Hat Time?

Post by Paul_Schatzkin »

.
Good thing there is a section here for 'Interesting Links' because otherwise this one would be way off topic.

I exchanged some messages with Frank and Richard about this subject today, and Richard encouraged me to go ahead and post it, so.... here goes.

In the past month or two I have been introduced to a Brit (I think) named Bob Greenyer who fronts something called "The Martin Fleischman Memorial Project:

http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/

...named for the Fleischmann of Pons and Fleischmann, they of the (infamous? notorious?) Cold Fusion Flap of 1989.

Mr. Greenyer is an advocate of LENR, CANR, and any opportunity he can find to use the words "plasmoid" or "ball lightning" in a sentence.

He is also – to my ear – a Word Salad Gourmet. He cannot explain one thing without introducing another thing that he explains by introducing another thing and then dropping a few names and introducing another thing and after a few minutes I'm like, "Can I just get dessert and get out there already?"

While I have never claimed to be half the scientist that some of you are, I can grasp the general concepts of esoteric subjects, at least well enough to explain them to lay people. As I have said on several of the podcasts I've appeared on in the past several months, "I'm not a physicist, but I play one on the Internet..."

But this guy... just fucking baffles me (it's my site, I can drop an f-bomb if I want to).

So I beg the indulgence of anybody within the sound of my digits to take a look at this video:

https://www.youtube.com/live/RnQxSASCRP ... IzgxKUmVKL

... and see if you can make any sense of it.

I was curious because of his use of the expression 'flux capacitor' –– which anybody who's been to a movie in the past forty years knows is what 'Doc Brown' called the gizmo that made time travel possible in the Back to the Future movies. I am intrigued by the reference mostly because whatever Townsend Brown did (or did not) discover was based on a Capacitor (note for the uninitiated: that character's full name is.... wait for it... Doc EmeTT Brown!).

So I posed the question, "where is the reference to the Flux Capacitor in this video?" And the response I got was.... well, what sort of dressing would you like with your word salad, Dr. Gearloose?

I shared the actual response with Frank and Richard but will not bother to post it here, you can see it right below the video –– if you have the nerve, spare time, and/or intestinal fortitude to follow the link above.

I know my own limitations and feel I am fortunate to have at least the acquaintance of a small circle of experienced individuals who know this territory better than I do so...

... can anybody translate for me?

Or should I just order plenty of Heavy Duty Reynolds before appearing at a conference with this guy in June?

Thanks,

--PS

Also, one of the big topics at this conference is something called the "Thunderstorm Generator." Free free to weigh in on that topic, too: https://bityl.co/P6kg
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Re: Tin Foil Hat Time?

Post by Dennis P Brown »

As a Material Physicist and getting through half before realizing this is a total waste, I'll give a few comments based on that (painful) vid.

First off, the man is certainly deluded and will believe exactly what he wants and make up insane statements based on real data that the Analytical electron microscope provides.

Is anything he says in any way possible - no. It violates any known physics so arguments about his statements are rather pointless but I will give a little taste for those that want to get a flavor but are smart not to waste any time on this vid.

In the vid he scans the sample of 'copper oxide' (a SEM with backscatter measurement capabilities). He uses these electron backscatter data to determine the composition of various imbedded structures he comes across. Then any time he see's a metal material (contaminate) that is not Cu, he claims it was created by the material via some type of nuclear transmutation. Of course, if such did occur massive numbers of gamma rays and x-rays as well as neutrons would occur and be easy to measure - which if done was negative so not mentioned - or, more likely, not done. I do feel that this was not done because he knew of these required secondary effects but rather, that in all likelihood, he was too ignorant of nuclear physics to even know this trivial fact.

In conclusion:
The man has gone down the rabbit hole and his claims are based on a series of contaminates that he claims were created by some magical nuclear transmutation. Sorry to say that he is the type more likely to be dangerous when confronted with his delusions (some people in the US of late are similar, unfortunately for the survival of our democracy.) So, he isn't anything special or new on the internet - more pitiful, considering the waste of that beautiful instrument. Q-anon level beliefs, with very expensive equipment and as Paul clearly points out, uses word salads to paint extremely wild claims based on unhinged speculation as proof.

Paul - in my opinion, absolutely nothing there worth anyone's time. If any algorithm now starts adding these types of nutty people vids to me because I visited this one, I'm gonna start wearing a Al foil hat ;)
Last edited by Dennis P Brown on Tue Apr 02, 2024 2:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Tin Foil Hat Time?

Post by Dennis P Brown »

Did not select the link to the thunderstorm generator . Rather, did a search and after reading the blurb of what this person claims - no way I'll select and watch that - burned once and learned my lesson. These two people are crazier than some street people I've run into but as Paul points out: word salads cure all ignorance of a topic for these types.
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Re: Tin Foil Hat Time?

Post by Richard Hull »

What can I say. All metals are crystalline more or less. Metals alloy to greater or lesser degrees. What is pure metal? In the industrial metals biz .999 is the purity standard for absolutely pure metal. I had close dealings with a company in the 1990's which dealt in ultra pure metals. I learned the "lingo" in that rarified business. 99.9% or .999 is called 3n0 in the ultra pure world of metals and is considered rather corrupted. I had a lot of fun collecting the elements from their scrap pile until they became an ISO 2000 certified location in order to keep their customer base.

I learned from them that only the japanese were a source for 6n3 aluminum at $500/pound back then. That there is no normal source of 4n+ Zr or Ta. that taking a piece of 4n5 indium and turning it into wire can, via uncleaned tooling can leave the surface of the wire 3n3. The company actually turned ultra pure metals in wire, sheet, rod and plate. (Mostly Aerospace, medical and Computer biz needs) Needless to say, they had tooling for specific metals only and would have to change out tooling related to the metal worked on. The costs for such on-demand forms of ultra pure metal is naturally stratosphere priced. One pound of 4n0 indium is currently about $180, but a pound of Indium wire .020 in diameter of 4n warranted purity might be $700.

To try and analyze parts per million, or worse still, parts per billion requires full knowledge of what common tramp metals are normal to the metals during refinement, melting, and any other processes the metal undergoes. Tramp metals on cooling can crystalize out of the mother metal as sub micro inclusions.

The first 30 minutes of the video Paul wanted me to look at had a very good EDX system looking at copper. Very common tramp metals in copper are gold and silver and vice versa. Copper pipe that has ever seen a good cleansing in soap or any detergent might develop tiny regions of copper phosphate. I am no metallurgist, but I have been cast among them for a few years as relates to what is pure and what is not and all the various horrors of claiming purity. Even 5n0 metal has crystalline impurities if you dare to nit-pick into parts per million. 5n0 silver can have 100 millionths parts of gold and 290 millionths parts of silver in it and 80 millionth parts mercury and still be 5n0 silver, that is, 99.999% silver.

I am not surprised to find copper pipe or any 3n metal that is untouched or which has undergone some chemical process, especially electrolytic in nature, to contain all manner of detectable tramp material especially on the surface or even some microns in depth. How pure is this guy's tin foil hat. Tin has many tramp metals at 3n0 purity.

I hold this fellow's great joy in what I consider a layman's joy over common results to be flawed without further qualification.
Pass this one by.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Re: Tin Foil Hat Time?

Post by Frank Sanns »

Who makes a three hour and fifteen minute video anyway? Mental and verbal masturbation.

I skimmed it and responded privately but here is my public assessment. Besides a video that could have been done in 10 minutes or less, the BS in there is huge. When you hear things like fractal toroidal geometry, that is a noun string that is just rubbish. I will skip the others.

The main substance of my criticism is the lack of scientific technique or methods. You cannot take any sample, no matter how pure it is, and put it in a plastic zip lock bag and expect for any kind of meaningful results. Anything that was inside the bag and any catalyst or machines used to make the bag contaminate the specimen. Then there is the static electricity of putting something inside and taking it out. Anything that was airborne or in the local area would be attracted and stick to the surface. Ship it around while those things get ground in and stuck to the surface and you have noise and nothing more.

Then there is the matter off the mechanism for elements to just appear randomly from the periodic table. What nuclear reactions skip dozens of intermediate elements to form clumps of literally quadrillions of atoms.

There is no science there.
Achiever's madness; when enough is still not enough. ---FS
We have to stop looking at the world through our physical eyes. The universe is NOT what we see. It is the quantum world that is real. The rest is just an electron illusion. ---FS
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Re: Tin Foil Hat Time?

Post by Rex Allers »

Ok, I wasted too much time browsing around but here's some of what I saw.
If nothing else, scroll down and find the short mp4 meme I extracted.

The youtube link Paul shared was a live(-ish) streaming event.
Perhaps Paul was invited to join as it happened.

From the streaming event shared...
"O-Day - Flux capacitor "

Yikes. Who are those people watching??
I could only tolerate short samples.

A favorite extraction for me, from early in the post is,
"For me this is UTTERLY conclusive, UTTERLY conclusive.
Of course... I could be wrong."
(extracted to
http://www.xertech.net/pub/Greenyer-Summary.mp4
for your meme entertainment)

Then I went to
In youtube's member info

Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project
https://www.youtube.com/@MFMP/videos

There, in About:
Our goal is to facilitate the wide-spread replication and validation of New Fire [?] experiments, such as Francesco Celani's, at reputable research institutions around the world.

Once proven, research funds and private capital will flow into the field and result in some amazing, life saving, and life improving products.

----
Looking for this work by Celani found this
https://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Grims ... ficati.pdf

shorter:
(Grinshaw pdf extractions)

Verifications of Francesco Celani’s LENR Observations in
Nickel-Copper Alloy (Constantan) and Hydrogen Experiments

Thomas W. Grimshaw, The University of Texas at Austin, Austin, TX
Stefano Concezzi and Brian Glass, National Instruments, Austin, TX

Last bullet point:
Lack of verification in this survey does not negate possibility of LENR

----
From Popular Science article
https://www.popsci.com/science/cold-fus ... -reaction/

LENR defined...
(Low-Energy Nuclear Reactions)

Cold fusion, better known by its practitioners as LENR, is the science—or, perhaps, the art—of making atomic nuclei merge and, ideally, harnessing the resultant energy. All of this happens without the incredible temperatures, on the scale of millions of degrees, that you need for “traditional” fusion. In a dream world, successful cold fusion could provide us with a boundless supply of clean, easily attainable energy.


----
From browsing the videos section of
Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project,
in the streaming event
he seems to be talking about results from this work
Bin-Juine Huang - DHX-2 reactor

Searching online finds this as one key post
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-023-50824-8

-- Nature.com -- pretty impressive

but begins with:
"05 January 2024 Editor’s Note: Readers are alerted that the conclusions presented in this article are subject to criticisms that are being considered by the Editors. A further editorial response will follow the resolution of these issues."

Yikes. But they published it.
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Re: Tin Foil Hat Time?

Post by Rex Allers »

Oh,
I forgot to share this from the comments section of the youtube stream post.

I found it pretty appropriate.

@chuxxsss
2 weeks ago (edited)

Bob, the ying flowers are clockwise spin. the yang is anti-clockwise destruction. The outside is a north polar, and the oreo is producing a like minded north polar which throws it out when it reaches the same magnet level as the flower system.

---
Of course, I must be critical as a person who had a Yin/Yang symbol painted on the back of my motorcycle helmet. I find it problematic to present rotations as opposite. They seem to follow each other in a common path.

Also, pedantic, it's yin yang not ying yang.

Hmm. Wish I had an appropriate cookie to eat now.
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Tin Foil Hat Redux: The 'Thunderstorm Generator'

Post by Paul_Schatzkin »

.
For those of you with nothing better to do (which, apparently, includes me this morning...)

Anybody on this thread familiar with the "thunderstorm generator" ?

This is going to be one of the Big Deals featured at the 'Cosmic Summit' (I actually have a hard time typing that, hence the quote marks) in June. Malcom Bendall, the inventor, is going to be there and bring one.

Here is as good an explanation as I've found yet:

https://youtu.be/npy-tQI3jgo?si=2pnHiq8NNAvVM1fg
Go to 2:30 for the Thunderstorm Generator part
Go to 2:30 for the Thunderstorm Generator part
... but you have to go about 2:30.30 in to get to the discussion of this technology, which nears as I can tell is not so much a 'generator' as an emissions converter.

Basically what they're talking is a stand-alone Honda generator with this 'technology' appended to the exhaust:
It still burns fossil fuels...
It still burns fossil fuels...
The words "plasmoid" and 'transmutation' get tossed in for good measure.

This chart shows the change in emissions. Red is 'before' the 'technology' is 'switched on,' green is after:
Screenshot 2024-04-10 at 9.08.16 AM.png
So all the CO and CO2 are 'transmuted' into O. Nice trick, eh-what?

Y'all help me keep an open mind on this, OK?

Thanks,

--PS
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Re: Tin Foil Hat Time?

Post by Frank Sanns »

These types of devices are much like the perpetual machine devices of the past. What they do is to assemble believable components in somewhat difficult configurations. This serves two purposes. One is make it seem like it is real and second that it is somewhat time consuming or complex to build so it is not easily debunked. This leaves the interpretation up to the person viewing to bias it any way they choose. Lots of suckers out there.

Now to the reality of it. Yes, there is a plausible path to work but the complexity is not needed.

CO and CO2 can indeed be turned into oxygen. It is not difficult but it does require energy and the correct conditions. The first step would be to run some hydrogen into the engine during operation. Hydrogen at combustion temperatures and pressures will convert CO and CO2 into water vapor. If the engine is run a little lean with extra air in there, then O2 will pass through too but no CO or CO2 will be left in the output stream.

More simplistically, chemistry is reaction between outer electrons in atoms. Once the voltage on a system is above 14 volts, really any kind of chemical species can be formed. A plasma by definition are such conditions albeit normally at much higher voltages. What this means is that CO does not really exist as a molecule in a plasma anymore than water or any other compound. Water for example is H+, OH-, O--, or a bunch of combinations. So H2 can exist in there, O2 can exist as can everything in-between. Now add in a mix of molecules and all sorts of combinations can be happening. The reactions then form new species that will either be the most thermodynamically stable when the plasma is switched off or some can be trapped in whatever the kinetic equilibrium was when it was formed.

Not trying to be complicated but what goes into an engine and what is coming out can be varied greatly by the chemical makeup of all of the feed streams. This is also somewhat true on the discharge side of the engine because of the very high temperatures and pressures.
Achiever's madness; when enough is still not enough. ---FS
We have to stop looking at the world through our physical eyes. The universe is NOT what we see. It is the quantum world that is real. The rest is just an electron illusion. ---FS
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Re: Tin Foil Hat Time?

Post by Richard Hull »

Mr. Whiskers noted that this is an alteration of Atoms. Frank noted that, if real, it is chemistry which deals with molecules. The energy needed may come from the second engines compression and heat stroke, as frank muses. One would feel much better seeing the apparatus run under test with the instruments attached. That is where so many of these things die on the vine. I fear this is a feel good hoax.

Richard Hull
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Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
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Re: Tin Foil Hat Time?

Post by Dennis P Brown »

First and foremost - unless a truly independent lab measured those values, they can not be counted on - period. That is the most likely result - those numbers are based on make believe. Looking at the photo it appears like they have an active chemical to absorb the CO2 emission from the unit (a good catalyst converter can handle all CO into CO2.)
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Re: Tin Foil Hat Time?

Post by Paul_Schatzkin »

.
Can you make any sense of what's going on here?

https://twtr.in/3bwz
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Re: Tin Foil Hat Time?

Post by Frank Sanns »

Notice you cannot see the entire device again. Plans yes and pieces but it is confounded by all sorts of contraptions whose purpose cannot be fully understood even by people in the know.

Back when emissions really started to become a legal issue with automobiles, inspection stations had to install emission testing devices. One of the really early tricks to pass the emissions was to install a device called an air pump. It ran off of the fan belt as was a simple low pressure, relatively high volume air compressor. What it dis was supply excess oxygen (air) into the hot exhaust stream to oxidize over any unburnt hydrocarbons and CO that was in the stream. Equally or more importantly, it greatly diluted the exhaust gas stream with air. When put on the test equipment, the unburnt hydrocarbons, CO, CO2, and NOx were all highly diluted and gave lower numbers that passed the emission tests.

That appears to be what is going on here as you see a vigorous stream of air bubbling up through a cylinder on the lower right at one point in the video. Of course his measuring device is going to read plenty of oxygen with a high air stream and a small engine at or near idle.
Achiever's madness; when enough is still not enough. ---FS
We have to stop looking at the world through our physical eyes. The universe is NOT what we see. It is the quantum world that is real. The rest is just an electron illusion. ---FS
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Re: Tin Foil Hat Time?

Post by Paul_Schatzkin »

I've got another tasty word salad for y'all:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7etx1Ev6ES0

--PS
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Re: Tin Foil Hat Time?

Post by Dennis P Brown »

Not gonna read one of those again; if you have already suffered through this one, a few details would be nice.
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Re: Tin Foil Hat Time?

Post by Paul_Schatzkin »

Dennis P Brown wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 7:19 pm Not gonna read one of those again; if you have already suffered through this one, a few details would be nice.
Heh, I don't blame you.

I wouldn't know where to start. The lazy susan is spinning too quickly...

Though there is a curious reference to a 'sonoluminescent star in a jar' at 3:25.

They seem to think they're doing 'fusion'.

And this might be the antidote I'm looking for:

https://bityl.co/Q4BL

--PS
Paul Schatzkin, aka "The Perfesser" – Founder and Host of Fusor.net
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"Fusion is not 20 years in the future; it is 60 years in the past and we missed it."
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Re: Tin Foil Hat Time?

Post by Richard Hull »

The uninformed on parade. They have no shame for they have no knowledge related to what they push as reality. We think.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Re: Tin Foil Hat Time?

Post by Dennis P Brown »

The link said it all - and thanks, Frank, I mean Paul, for providing it. Maybe I need to wear that hat!

I realize that most of these people are desperate to embrace anything that seems magical. Our world lacks magic and is, in reality, a very frightful/brutal place. So, the alternative - years of hard study in mathematics and the technical sciences - is far too many and all very long bridges for them to traverse in order to grasp the only real magic that our Universe does offer.

So, their desire to be sucked into nonsense is something I pity.
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Re: Tin Foil Hat Time?

Post by Paul_Schatzkin »

Thought y'all might like a gander at the head gear I'm planning to wear at "The Cosmic Summit"
IMG_2943.jpeg
IMG_2943.jpeg (331.2 KiB) Viewed 1146 times
Paul Schatzkin, aka "The Perfesser" – Founder and Host of Fusor.net
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Re: Tin Foil Hat Time?

Post by Dennis P Brown »

Too bad you haven't been invited to that Rogan podcast; you could then address a lot of crazies confused people - Rogan being one of the bigger ones - and provide some excellent and intelligent information to his cult ... I mean, listeners.

I am still shocked how the internet and so many podcasters are providing, well, totally false information. People are just so willing to believe anything if they decide to get attached to the idea - no matter how far out there the idea really is. I also am seeing this more on the national level and frankly, I am starting to think that this trend is becoming a national cancer and will even lead to a similar outcome for our democracy.

I really do blame the internet and all the talking heads that can lie and create false information on a national level because of our holding to "Free Speech". Something I never before believed would be so dangerous or at the least, that people would not accept real experts nor be so willing to follow these self severing liars.

Finally*, that a State government has recently outlawed saying a scientific fact in any of its official documents is the height of self serving and dangerous methods these types are following to damage and undermine science and the health of our social structure. These types are a far greater danger to our world than AI.

*End of rant ...uh, for now.
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