What a gas! - deuterium update

[Richard Hull]

I just ordered what may be my last cylinder of Deuterium and the quote I received is typical of what a company will be charged. ( I already have two spare full cylinders in my lab). Based in the increasing difficulty, I figure what I may never use is like money in the bank.

Note* Most current suppliers will not sell to a private individual or ship to a private address. Regulations are coming on line and suppliers are very leary of cold calls from 15 year olds using dad's credit card to order deuterium sent to their home at 1510 Primrose Lane in Hanks Hollow, Oklahoma.

50 liters of 99.6% D2 gas is currently $136.00
The lecture cylinder of steel is non-returnable (you buy it) costs $95.00
Hazmat shipping fee is $40.00
Plus normal shipping........

So a figure of $275.00-$300.00 for a 50 liter cylinder of 99.6% D2, delivered is about normal for March 2014. It will increase, I am sure, over time.

The first time I ever ordered (1998) the gas was $105, the cylinder was $80.00. So, the increase is not too bad for 16 years.

Richard Hull

[Mark Scott-Nash]

That price tracks inflation since 1998 very well. Apparently the supply/demand balance hasn't changed since then.

Richard, what new regulations are coming on line?

I haven't been able to find a supplier and I'm no 15-year-old. I asked my welding supply store if they could order some and they said they wouldn't even try unless it was for a nuclear physics lab at the university. Not just physics, but specifically nuclear physics. Apparently they tried to order some for a chem prof and their supplier wouldn't ship. It had nothing to do with hazmat or appropriate storage, etc, since this is an industrial gas supply retailer.

I looked up the regs a few months ago and I didn't see anything more than what is in place for hydrogen, so I'm wondering if there are "unpublished" rules being applied for deuterium.

[Richard Hull]

The unwritten rules and regs are mostly at the wholesale distributor end. Some folks have you fill out a form detailing your planned use and demanding your federal tax ID number and other such things designed specifically to keep them for ever selling a cubic millimeter of any gas to an indivdual. Others just refuse to sell to individuals and or ship to a private residence. Regardless, things are tightening up a great deal. Full line welding shops representing major gas suppliers are about the only hope for walk-in traffic and, as you note, some of those are clamping down due to reflected standing waves feeding back from their suppliers.

I predict a lot of heavy water electrolysis units will come on line in the future for fusor building.

Richard Hull

[JoeBallantyne]

Richard, what supplier do you buy your deuterium from?

Thanks.

Joe.

[Richard Hull]

Cambridge Isotopes. No sales to individuals. No shipping to private residences.

Richard Hull

[Peter Schmelcher]

Richard, I have been working on a drying approach to finish my PEM cell solution for new and old fusor enthusiasts. The long hold up, my Catch-22, has been the lack of an RGA. So I switched my thinking to a commercial drying product for bottled hydrogen that is used for analytic gas chromatography. It uses a zeolite and is specified at 200ppb residual H2O contamination. Item 150382481448 is not yet tested but I foresee no surprises. The manufacturer recommends regular replacement, go figure; however zeolite drying is a reversible process with low pressure, so effectively unlimited reuse in a fusor setup. When it is actually tested and liberating neutrons I will take a stab at a FAQ.

The pic is mostly self explanatory. The right syringe has a 0.02” O2 vent hole drilled half way up. Above the left syringe is a limit switch which cuts off PEM current and regulates the pressure. The spring leaver arm to left syringe is slightly shorter so the deuterium is at higher pressure wrt the O2 + D2O in the right syringe.

A word of caution for younger experimenters: Some other drying products must only be used with helium carrier gas because they are exothermic and dangerous when combined with hydrogen or deuterium!

-Peter

[Richard Hull]

Peter, this is really exciting! Keep us informed. A real, workable solution with a complete exposition for the younger folks on using heavy water, (readily obtainable and mailable), is long overdue. The increasing regulation related to obtaining gaseous deterium coupled with the opportunity to save hundreds of dollars using an electrolysis setup over a gas bottle and regulator gas supply system will make such an effort a much needed boost to amateur fusion. Any methodology in any part of the fusor construction process will certainly result in a gain in amateur successes at fusion.

Richard Hull

[rheil]

I realize that I haven't been posting here very often, but once retired I seem to have became far busier than I was when employed, and my fusion efforts have been on a back burner for the last year or so.

Anyway, perhaps I have something anecdotal to contribute to the discussion at hand. Among the final experiments conducted with my second generation fusor (F2, described elsewhere in these forums) I had an opportunity to do a comparison of its operation using both bottled D2 as well as D2 from my electrolysis cell. F2 was certainly not a world class fusor, but it did fusion well, made enough neutrons for reliable silver activation and operation was quite repeatable.

Over the years I made incremental improvements to my electrolysis system (original design also described elsewhere in these forums) and the final version used a dry ice and alcohol bath to chill a long thin copper tube carrying the D2 from the cell to the fusor. I have no idea what the residual moisture level was, but it was sufficient for my purposes and fusor operation was noticeably easier to control with the dried gas. [I have an improved design under construction for use with F3 which I hope to post here someday.]

Just before retiring (both myself and F2) I was able to make consecutive runs using both bottled gas (thanks again, Jon R.) and the output from my electrolysis system. While the use of bottled gas was far more convenient, silver activation revealed no obvious neutron production differences between bottled gas and gas from the electrolysis cell. I was recording chamber voltage and current as well as AG activation levels, but the results, though noisy, were similar enough that I dismissed residual moisture as a major performance limiter with F2 and turned my efforts towards other concerns as well as the design of F3.

I may want to revisit these tests once F3 is up and running well, but I feel confident in the continued use of an electrolyzer with a suitable gas drier for further fusion experiments.

Having said that, if anyone in the southwest US has a bottle of D2 that they are wanting to sell or trade for other equipment, I am certainly in the market...

Bob H.

[Mark Scott-Nash]

And on that note,

If anyone in Colorado has deuterium they wish to sell, I'll buy.