13 years old building a fusor-Looking for help

[Tom McCarthy]

Alright,

I'm Tom and I'd like to build a fusor, I'm 13 and in love with physics, science etc...Learned the Periodic table off. It was only today that I even heard about this website when I was looking at Taylor Wilson's stuff on some sites. I've read a few of the FAQ's and will try to get a mentor (I have someone in mind). At this moment in time I don't completely understand how the whole fusor works and am looking at Richard Hull and other's guides. I don't know many of the terms as I only joined today but would be very grateful to anyone willing to help me out. I understand that in my case I would probably need deuterium to power the fusor and need some sort of pressure system and high-voltage power source? Again, if anyone at all is willing to help I am grateful. My budget is around €1,000 cash on hand, but if I got a bit of my parents and got a bit of sponsorship I could drive it up to around €1,500 or around that. I see that this isn't a big budget, but from reading the forums I've seen people who've done with less or are doing it now. In the meantime, I'll read some more FAQs and wait for some response.
EDIT: Forgot something, if anyone's worried about the amount of time I'm willing to put into this, I have a three-month summer break just around the corner and am willing to spend any time not spent working on my windmill on the fusor.

8/5/2013- Joined Fusor, began research.

Thanks!
Tom.

[Dany_B_Drolet]

Just to put my grain of salt, I've been trying to build a fusor since I was your age. I'm 19 years old now and I'm just starting out. I've been reading about it for all this time, did a lot of study and it's only now that I'm doing it.

From what I have experienced, people first laugh at you, then freak out before telling you it's impossible when they realize you're serious. The biggest thing stopping you will most likely be, respectively, knowledge, your parents, then money, then having access to the darn components and then not having the tools...

Basically, the only way I found to be able to do such a project at such a young age is to have a mentor and access to a decent shop.

Really, without someone ready to help you, this is just frustrating as hell.

But you know what? Screw hell and go on. When you're determined, people stop screwing with you.

[Paul_Schatzkin]

Dany, I see you've added your "Real Name" in the field for that in your profile.

Now please change your Login/User ID to the real name as well so that that will appear in the index page. Sorry for the inconvenience, it's just one of the "features" of our new platform that we're all going to have to deal with.

As for Tom, I'm in complete agreement with what Dany says. Don't let the detractors knock you from your path. As Jim Abbot - who became a major league pitcher despite having a mal-formed right (?) hand, "Find something you love to do in this world and don't let anybody change your opinion that you can do it."

There are times I wish I'd gotten that advice when I was 13 years old. You can have it now. Get started.

--PS

[Tom McCarthy]

Ok guys,
Dany I'm kinda getting that yea, but most of the family are pretty enthusiastic and i kind of baffle them with what I talk about so they just let me fire away, friends are kinda following your trail and starting to just get freaked out that I'm actually gonna the and build the thing!

Paul, thanks for the thanks for the encouragement as well, I'll try and keep ye updated on the post.

Also, if there's anyone in Ireland reading the post who wouldn't mind pointing me out to a few places to get any of the components required, that'd be a great help!

Tom

[Dany_B_Drolet]

I don't know for Ireland, but as for me, I'm getting pretty much all my components from US eBay via a freight forwarding service (shipito) and from local classifieds. You would surprised of what people sell around you. I found nitrogen dewars, a mechanical high vacuum pump, tesla coil components less than 20 minutes from me. And I live in a boring suburb. Most of the time, these people don't even know what they got, so they sell them at ridiculous prices. For the more specialized equipment, they seem to be located mostly in California. 60% of my stuff come from there. I also saw quite a few things, including chambers, regulators and vacuum pumps selling in the UK. The delivery was prohibitive for me, but maybe that would be interesting for you.

If you need components from oversea, I'd be personally ready to use my freight forwarding account for you (splitting the service cost) or for free in Canada. Someone from the US would be more helpful, however. Maybe a network of fusor ''resenders'' would be a good idea?

Anyway, my advice is to check out the prices first without buying anything for a while. One-time deals are surprisingly rare on ebay. A new one nearly always pop back. If you know the normal price, you'll know when you'll get a good deal. Also, let the rarer and less ''hot'' items relist themselves. In many cases, the price will drop. Someone was selling a complete high precision gas throttle valve with controllers and failsafe system for 800$, then, after a few relistings, I made him a 80$ offer which was accepted.

Anyway, that's my method. I don't know how it can apply to your situation.

PS: Changing my username right away. Always wanted to get rid of it anyway.

[Tom McCarthy]

That's really helpful, My mam knows people in universities and labs around the country and my uncle works in one so I might be going for a few visits and maybe manage to scrounge a few parts. I'll start looking around on eBay etc.
One problem I can foresee is gas, It seems nearly everyone uses deuterium which I'd rather not buy as it's so expensive but was thinking that I could produce some through electrolysis of heavy water if I could find some...On the other hand I was also thinking that maybe helium could be used? It seems that it should be much like deuterium because of its place on the Periodic Table but I saw a video where someone used it recently and it was very different from when they used deuterium.

Edit: Just took a look on ebay for power supplies and found this :http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/100kV-high-vo ... 4ac46a461c
As I've said before I dont know much about the components, but this seems like a pretty good deal. I saw someone who bought a 50kv for €200 but this is "Tesla Coil Resonant" so is that alright?

[Richard Hull]

Tesla coil based power supplies are not satisfactory to power fusors. Automobile spark coil based HV supplies are also not satisfactory.

You must have a negative hot, positive grounded power supply capable of 10ma minimum current that can go up to a minimum of 30kv to do fusion to any decent level.

Read the FAQs in the power supply/HV forum.

Richard Hull

[Tom McCarthy]

I got the negative hot,positively grounded info, just didn't know about the HV Tesla Coil. What about this one? http://www.sci-supply.com/closeup.asp?cid=204&pid=280


I was also talking to a guy I know in College doing a masters in Electrical Engineering, he told me that it's the maximum voltage of a mains supply line here in Ireland would be only about 50kv, is this correct?
Thanks,

Tom

[Dany_B_Drolet]

There isn't really a max voltage you get from the main. Some TV's I worked with went at about 40Kv on the flyback, and Tesla coils can get up to the megavolts. You'll need some pretty heavy stuff (I mean, physically) but it is possible to get insane voltages. Again, I do have experience in electronics, but I'm no high power specialist.

I'm personally trying to find an X-Ray transformer. I remember that one of my teacher had one that he did not want to give to me while we were cleaning his scrap room, since he didn't want me to get killed with it a few years ago. Must have weighted nearly 100 lbs of copper. If I can't find one, I'll try to build a x100 voltage multiplier coupled to a variac.

As for the supply you linked, this is most likely a voltage multiplier system. Maybe suitable for fusor use but I worry about the precision. It's 5, 10, 20 or 50kV. Between 20 and 50 is the range you will use for fusion. However, from what I know about multipliers, you could maybe hack the thing and use a variac to get a more precise range, but it might be a bit awkward to use unless you don't change the multiplier.

Again, I'm no specialist of this specific application, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Richard Hull]

The Sci-supply is absolutely worthless for a fusor. Forget it.

Man! What is it about the full spec that folks don't understand!

0-30 KV minimum fully variable and a full 10 ma minimum current with 30ma being highly desirable.

If the current is not spec'd in any ad....Do Not buy the supply as it is a piece of kid's garbage. A proper supply will weigh between 80 and 200 lbs. and will not be much smaller than one of those very small refrigerators! If bought brand new it will cost about $2000.00 If you are smart and lucky, you can get one for free. So figure on spending between nothing and $2000.00 for your fusor supply. That's quite a range, I know, but it is totally under your control. I got all my supplies for free.

And yes, a proper supply is capable of killing you instantly with one wrong move. You will not get shocked, you will get dead. These are not toys!

Richard Hull

[Tom McCarthy]

I'll forget the Sci-Supply then.
That info helps about what to watch for in the adverts Richard.
Dany, you're talking about engineering a transformer yourself, I've seen it being talked about and done before but have next to no experience in the electronic engineering trade, I can understand capacitors, transistors etc. But I think if I try and make one myself I'll be even more likely to blow the shed sky-high.
Soon enough there's a local electrician coming to the house so I'll get talking to him about any local places he might be able to find something for me or maybe get a low price one for me. I'll update you guys when I find another suitable piece or have a few questions that I can't find answers to in the FAQ's!
And again guys, thanks for the support!
Tom

[Dany_B_Drolet]

Holy crap! I did not remember about the 30mA spec! Wow, that is some dangerous setup. I guess that will be the ''one hand rule'' during operation, in order to avoid as much as possible the heart in case of electrocution. It's much more than sufficient to stop the heart or to cause damage to organs.

That make for a pretty big power system in case of a standard linear design.

There is a lot at play in a power supply system. This is what I have most experience with. I have done tons of linear supplies and recently made some switching-based systems. I know about charge pumps, but they are only used at low voltage. Voltage multiplier design is new to me. I wonder if it would be possible to make a reliable and powerful enough system out of it. If it is indeed working, that could make for a pretty light system compared to the big ''bucket'' hydro transformers I see on most Fusors. I could even ship you one!

After reading a little, It appears I would need multiple AC stages to get a 0-15kV AC output before running it through a multiplier cascade, which would require some beefy components. 30mA at 50kV is 1500W, and 30mA at 30kV is 900W. That is some pretty crazy power levels for such a design. I need to check the feasibility further.

[Richard Hull]

Sufficiently able linear power supply systems with multipliers are big by nature, mostly due to the power transformer. They have issues mostly due to stored energy if you are going to filter to any significant degree. However, they tend to be the free systems cobbled up from parts or a very old systems like x-ray supplies being given away.

The modern expensive supplies which are suitable are all switching type supplies. In general, they can be smaller, lighter, much more efficient and much more difficult to simply cobble up.
The big stopper for the average no electronic guy is the special HF transformer and the need for "fast" multiplier components, (diodes).

This whole current posting is not part of the construction forum anyway, but the HV forum. If more posting is needed, start a new thread there. We need to keep the discussions, forum specific.

Richard Hull

[Dany_B_Drolet]

Yeah, you're right. I will create a new thread in the HV board. Sorry for getting off the rails.

Anyway, I'd like to design a semi-conductor based power supply for Fusors. If there is something I believe I can contribute to the community, this is it. I have my idea as to how to do it, I just need to draw it and check how to source the components. Having some more schematics wouldn't hurt for us beginners.

I'll talk about this further in the new thread.

[Tom McCarthy]

Dany if you manage to make one I'll definitely order.
I think I stand much clearer than when I first started on the Fusor, even understand some parts. I think progress is going reasonably well so I'll keep looking/scrounging/begging for parts and gathering information.
I think my next step is to get the pumps, I've tried to reply to my thread but there's something wrong with the server.
Anyways, I'll probably start a thread in each of the construction forums for the Fusor so I can get advice on each individual step.

Edit: Dany, I've run into my first big problem. Dad's trying to stop me. He's said himself that he's scared and he wants to talk to people like you Richard (Professional scientists etc). I've told him I'm asking you guys about everything that I buy, but he still is refusing to budge. He's read about half of one of your FAQs on high voltage Richard and he's started exploding into calling out all the negatives...X-rays, high-voltages... Without reading even a full FAQ! Mums happy with me building something like this as long as I pay for it with my savings, but Dads saying that €1,000 would be better spent going on a trip to see someone who's built a Fusor and is a professional, which in my opinion is crap as I can talk to multiple people who have built ones here. Richard, I think he's going to try and get in touch with you about all the things required to make a Fusor and get advice from you. Just warning incase he does.

Tom.

[Dany_B_Drolet]

Don't give up! They tried to stop me too even before in earlier projects, when I was your age. At first, it's all good. But then, at the end, they just want to protect you from all dangers and try to bring down your enthusiasm. Tesla coil, a few robots, then the 3D printer... My mom especially hated the Tesla coil.

A fusor is a dangerous device, everybody here knows that. So is doing practically anything. If you know and apply all safety rules and you know what you are doing, there isn't much more risk than crossing the road. I worked with HV with a bunch of teens (a few of them were basically monkeys) and only 1 person ever got shocked. Three times. Probably because she wasn't listening and never observed any safety rules like ''keep one hand in your back'' and ''plug the machine in the isolator'' before putting her hands all over the circuit board (she didn't know how the machine worked either).

To be honest, she was quite a show to watch working.


Anyway, I went to see some old teachers to talk about the feasibility of the power system I spoke about a little earlier. It's encouraging. I may even get a few things to donate from them!

Keep up the effort!

[Richard Hull]

Things were different when I grew up in the 50's. There was no internet. Libraries were the sole source of information anywhere on the planet. K-12 School libraries were garbage heaps filled with selected drivle. You had to get on a bus and ride to a main library to get deep scientific information. This took guts when I was 12, but I made regular pilgrimages to that massive marble palace of self-instruction.

Parents were busy with work and trying to put food on the table. The government was fostering amateur rocketry, (big stuff, not cardboard model rockets.). The government sent free radioisotopes fresh and hot from nuclear fission reactors to high schoolers experimenting in nuclear physics. Chemicals could be bought openly. Parents were pleased to see their kids fully engaged in self education, experimentation and other scientific activities, even if there was danger, for they knew from their depression upbringing that nothing worthwhile ever came from following the safe and easy road.

My generation and subsequent ones have so insulated their kids and have carefully shepherded them into little narrow slots. Today's kids are finding total solace and enrapturement in texting, the web and computer based life absorbing experiences. The kid who steps out of that mold to actually do something in the real world or put themselves are some risk via experimentation is yanked back into his or her cocoon. As you can see from within this thread, it even happens at 19!

13 can be a bit young for fusion, but if proper mentoring is seen to, a young mind can be put on a path that will enhance one's chances at a better life experience down the road. Your parents are the boss, of course, but an engaged 13 year old is far ahead of the average glazed over, spoon fed, 18 year old still in his limited cocoon.

Doing fusion is a real accomplishment that will force you to absorb many disciplines at one time. As such, it will drag you into many areas others will never know a thing about. Learn all you can about fusion and its related disciplines, each with their own safety procedures on your own and then try and find an engaged teacher or other suitable person who will help guide your efforts.

We have had a few, (I think three), father-son teams do fusion here, but that is rare. School based teams have also been successful at doing fusion. There are paths around doing "lone-wolf" fusion.

Richard Hull

[Tom McCarthy]

You guys have pinpointed it. It's the danger, the big unknown. The spider lurking in the darkness for Dad anyway, I'm not trying to paint him as the enemy but he's just so...worried. He's said it's dangerous so I said why does he drive his car...It's because he knows what he's doing. He did his drivers tests and got his license. That's essentially what I think as a whole any fusioneer is doing. They understand the dangers involved and do their best to avoid them.
You read guides, books, user's manuals, anything you can use to help you, that's my path anyway.
On the other hand, Mum is saying basically the same as you Richard, she understands that I'm doing something I love and knows and trusts that I am smart enough to take care of myself while doing it. She believes If I can do it I will and that if I am unsure about anything I'll get advice.
Then it's back to the fear. Nuclear bombs. Radiation. Electricity. High Voltages. Machine tools. There's no end to it, people don't just understand it. You have to stand up and say "I'm going to do this, I am going to put effort into this, I'm going to do this because I want to and I can." It's so hard to actually do something that is unexpected, that is unheard of, that is independently made. People think "Oh it's too dangerous."
Anyways, rant over.
The effort continues.

Tom

[Tom McCarthy]

Ugh, can't edit post.
Quick update: Everything's progressing. I'm pretty sure I know nearly everything I need for the Fusor now and have sent an e-mail to my uncle who's head of one of the labs in Cork University looking for any spare equipment as he has kindly said that he'd forward the e-mail to the physics and chemistry labs. Here's the meat of the e-mail I sent him with the intro and conclusion taken of. It may sound a bit weird to read but remember it was sent to someone. Lastly, I think my bit of info on Geiger counters and radiation/neutron detection needs a bit of work as I didn't find much information on that. I know it's out there in the FAQs but I spent little time reading them. If anyone has any more additions I'd appreciate it.

High Voltage:
Power Supply: This needs to be a fully variable, DC transformer capable of amplifying to pulling 20-30kv with a minimum of 20 milliamperes with 30ma being preferable. X-ray transformers can be used but neon sign transformers cannot, due to their magnetically shunted core.
This is the main part of the Hv supply, there are a lot of other parts for the circuitry (100 megohm+2 watt resistor, 1k ohm 1% resistor, 1/2 wave resistors etc). But these are small pieces and I doubt they are
worth going to the trouble of looking for, though if ye have a spare voltmeter lying around that'd be helpful.

High Vacuum/pumping:
Tandem pump: Turbo(molecular) or two-stage diffusion pump. Either of these pumps needs to be able to bring pressure down to the micron/sub-micron level= 0.001-0.00001 torr or less, the lower, the better! A water-cooled diffusion pump is usable, but un-liked as air-cooled is much safer for the project and easier to use. Also, with the diffusion pump, it needs to be between 2" and 4" in diameter and either pump needs to be capable of putting out around 5+ CFM. The turbo pump needs to be capable of the same specs. Only one is needed, not both.
Backing/Starting pump: This is a two stage rotary vane, mechanical pump. It needs to bring the pressure down to a range where the diffusion pump can become useful, this is about 1.00-0.05 torr and be able to pump out around 5+ CFM, same as the turbo/diffusion pump.
Foreline trap:This is placed between the two pumps or before the pressure chamber, it's useful when lowering pressure. Any type of one works.
Bellows Valves/ Gate: Two bellows valves are required when using a foreline trap and one bellows valve or gate is required aside from that, so in total either three bellows valves, or two bellows valves and a gate.
Pressure Reading Instrument: A Capacitive manometer gauge is most useful but other useful gauges include a Piranni gauge, a thermocouple gauge and Discharge, Penning or Cold Cathode gauges. Any of these are useful, a thermocouple gauge coupled with a Piranni or capacitive manometer gauge is a most useful set-up though, as I can then measure from pressures of 1-10 torr. A thermocouple gauge coupled with either a Discharge, Penning or Cold Cathode gauge is also quite handy.

Gas Line:
Gas Supply: A tank or lecture bottle of Deuterium gas. This is the fuel for the Fusor, as the gas molecules become positively ionized due to the massive potential electrical difference between the two grids, the ions then slam towards the central, negative grid and fuse.
Flow Restrictor Line/Reservoir: this is often a long, low conductance coil of hypodermic needle line and slows the gas flow to the valve. Small laser made, pin hole restrictors can also be used.
Filter: A micron filter is not necessary for the fusor but is a very much welcomed device for separating out any wayward solids or liquids from the gas.
Valve: This can either be a mass flow controller (Most Expensive) or a micrometer needle or another bellows valve, these instruments are used t control the inflow of deuterium gas to the Vacuum chamber.
Gas Regulator: A Gas regulator is also needed to keep the deuterium under pressure as it is stored and transported. This is preferably a hydrogen regulator to save as much gas as possible but other regulators can be used.

Chamber:
Vacuum Chamber: This is a Stainless Steel chamber around 6" in diameter. Two wagner hemispheres can be used or something alike. The chamber needs to have a few ports to fit into e.g: Pressure and gas lines. People typically purchase two 304 stainless steel hemispheres and attaches each to one of two mating conflat 304 stainless steel rings. (i.e. 8 inch rings are demanded for a 6" hemisphere, the rings having a 6" hole in them.) These rings contain a convenient weld lip or band often near the center of the thickness of the conflat ring's hole or opening. This allows the hemisphere to slip into the ring neatly and set upon this lip. This lip is often the weld's source of filler metal, flowing into and fusing with the hemisphere's melting edge lip at weld time. For a 6" diameter fusor, this practice will add about a 1" long straight section in the center of the assembled sphere. (An effective flat "belly band") This effective cylindrical section is exacerbated in larger fusor diameters as the conflat rings get thicker in cross section as their diameter increases.

Radiation/Neutron Detection:
Radiation Detection: A normal geiger counter or ion chamber, an ion chamber can detect gamma rays and radiation so they're excellent, a dosimeter is needed also to keep a constant eye on radiation. CUTIE PIE radiation detectors can be used for this as well. Theres no specifications for the radiation detectors really so anything goes.
Neutron Detection: There are a few options available for neutron detection. Neutron Scintillators (i.e.: Bicron BC-720) can be used to detect fast neutrons. Scintillators are the best for neutron detection as by using them it is much easier for me to calculate the total neutron emission per second per unit measurement (cm^2). Another option is a counter tube such as a He3 or BF3 tube, these types of detectors can be used but are hard to calculate the neutron emission with.

There ends a rather long description of what's needed.
Tom

[clarkmcc]

That's awesome! I am 14 now, started my project about a year ago. I have everything except a high voltage supply. Ran out of budget money halfway through and haven't gotten back to the project.

[Tom McCarthy]

Thanks! Though I haven't got any equipment yet...Are you in the USA or somewhere else? I'm in Ireland.
That's a bummer, you're parents or you couldn't get someone else to give you a bit of money? I'm thinking about going to the shops around town asking for sponsorship if I ever run out of cash. (Hopefully not!)
Edit: Just got a reply there from my uncle in the lab, he said he'll check the equipment with the physics department...Hopefully waiting!

Tom

[Mike Veldman]

Maybe a proactive stance will further your goals. Read the posts, descriptions and FAQs on this site. Look at the images. See how others overcame the obstacles. Improvise, adapt, and in the process you'll develop practical skills. There is no one way to do any of this. If you are as lucky as the rest of us, you'll find many interesting detours and anomalies to occupy yourself and probably learn something in the process.

mike

[Tom McCarthy]

Not sure if I completely understand what you're trying to say Mike, yes I am reading the forums and posts, trying to get advice too. Does that count as being proactive?
Anyways, still waiting for a reply from Uncle on if there's any equipment available, will let ye know when I do.

Tom

[Dany_B_Drolet]

... You mean, there are people who would ready to give you money for a science project? Now that's something I'd like to see that here... The mentality in Quebec is pretty much ''freakin ADHD kids are too spoiled and now they want money for more toys?''. Get all the help you can.

This is a truly a great resume of fusor construction. Just a slight error here, probably a typo:

A normal geiger counter or ion chamber, an ion chamber can detect gamma rays and radiation so they're excellent, a dosimeter is needed also to keep a constant eye on radiation.

I assume you meant ''Gamma rays and X-ray radiations''?

Again, just to put my grain of salt, here are my thoughts:

5+ CFM is a pretty big roughing pump and I doubt you'll get something truly high vacuum in that range. Beware of false claims. I personally got a 1.5 CFM (really 2) but high performance mech pump that I got locally in rebuilt state for 300$.

Turbopumps are complex and costly machines. If you don't want to pull crazy vacuums like I do, don't go there! Oils, cables & controllers are very expensive in comparison to diff pumps.

Mass flow controllers aren't that expensive by themselves, but control systems are. A control loop with a precision electric valve could be less expensive and work as well.

As for radiation detection, classics (like US cold war CDV-700 units) can be cheap, indestructible, and still precise geiger counters. Ionization chambers are not known for their sensibility. But it is a great device for X-rays measurements, which geigers can't detect, so having both certainly won't hurt. I personally have a CDV-700, a (broken) Deadalon end-window bench counter and a Keithley ion chamber medical x-ray tester (so sensible I was able to detect Bremsstrahlung x-rays from a slighly radioactive (mostly B not much G detected) fiestaware chip in a small lead pig! But I found it difficult to precisely measure a Co-60 gamma source like I could with the geiger counter). As for neutron radiation detection, I won for around 50$ a Boron-10 proportional neutron tube made by General Electric, which seem pretty sensible and easy to use. I lost one auction before he listed the same item again and won, so he may have a few more of them...

Again, this is just my opinion as a scrounger. I have yet to achieve anything.

[Tom McCarthy]

I'll address each of your points one by one if that's alright Dany.

I'm hopeful that the shops and businesses will give me a bit of funding if I (hopefully not) need it. I know my cousin has got bits of money of people in the local shops to help him with school woodworking projects.
You've found a mistake Dany, not a typo. Thanks for taking the time to read it. Really helps to know that someone is interested in keeping track of my effort helping me, not to say that is, that the other guys on the forums haven't been helpful. The whole community is excellent.
Ah, I see what you're saying about the pump, I don't know how much CFM power you need in relation to the pressure a pump can reach, I'm assuming it needs to be about or bigger than the volume of your vacuum chamber? Richarrd Hull, among others has also warned me about the false claims on pumps, especially those used in air-con and refrigeration.
For the turbo pump I wasn't that interested in them, more so in the diffusion pump. But a working turbo pump with setup for free? Free is always good!
Again, same view as on the turbopump with the mass flow controller, free is always good!
Radiation detection is a section where I haven't yet collected a lot of knowledge. For the neutron detection I'm looking for a simple BTI bubble detector. But for gamma and -x-ray- radiation I havn't really got much of the literacy and instruments understood. Hope to expand on that soon.
Either way, you're advice is as good as any, don't depreciate yourself, we do enough of it here in Ireland! And, anyways you've been at it since you were thirteen, you must have amassed a good lot of expertise by now!

Tom