Current State and Item Lists - Any advice?

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felyza
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Current State and Item Lists - Any advice?

Post by felyza » Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:42 am

Items Owned:
304 Chamber with 1x8CF, 4x6CF, 1x2.75CF ports ($500)
Granville Phillips 275 Convectron Gauge on 2.75CF ($51.15)
Logitech Webcam (cost of gas to drive 6 miles)

Items Enroute:
Granville Phillips 330 Digital Controller ($224.99)
Welch 1400 pump ($257.99)
Welch 1400 Major Rebuild Kit ($175)
6CF-2.75CF Zero Reducer ($115)
6CF-Swagelock Nipple w/ Valve ($130.99)
2x8CF blanks ($91.35)
2.75CF blank ($19.99)
Hipotronics 8100-5 Power Supply (~ $545 .. waiting on actual freight charge, includes est.)
2.75CF-Threaded ASA ($17.85)
2xRaspberry Pi ($84.95)
3m 99.94% Ta wire ($49.93)

Items To Go
temperature monitoring
vacuum tubing
2H20->2H electrolysis and regulation
power cable
HV feedthrough
6"-Whatever for feedthrough
viewport
HV ballasting
Pb sheets
Cu mesh (loved Dave Coultier's wrapping of the HV business end)

School Will Provide
Dosimeter
Geiger counter
Neutron metering
-maybe- Pb sheets

Funds Remaining:
< $2000

All costs include shipping.

Why the RPi's? Going to setup a custom data acquisition system. Ideally, one to cover everything, however I don't think it's going to have the horsepower. Got 2 just in case. Want to do voltage to chamber, vacuum, 2H flow, and temp at various points on the chamber; along with display and recording of camera output. It'd be smarter to use a 'real' computer, but the fusor itself is secondary to this for my grade. I'm a computer engineering major after all. No nuclear engineering programs here in Tampa that I'm aware of.

The power supply was incorrectly listed, so I got it for a steal. I've already spoken with Dave Coultier and have no intention of pushing the envelope for my first real build. Should work for any level of fusion I care to experiment with. Wish it were higher current rated (100kV/5mA).

2.75CF to ASA is intended for vacuum system. Price was right, but if I need to swap it, I will.

If budget permits, I want to get a secondary vacuum pump and gauge.

For feedthrough, I wish I could find information on how to get a working OxyHydrogen torch going so I can use Dave Coultier's information on building one from fused quartz. I called 4 local welding supply shops, and 3 of them said oxy-hydrogen was impossible (and said it'd blow up), the last said he had no idea where to look for information but that he'd heard of it.

I have to be presentation ready with whatever I have by 5/1 (even a 'demo quality' would be sufficient for a 4.0 grade, however I am after fusion for school funding purposes moving into university from college).

As per resources available, I'm a member of IEEE, ACM, and ANS.

So, how am I doing for the build? Does everything look ok thus far? Any suggestions? What about the oxy-hydrogen torch, or should I invest in a feedthrough? I'd really prefer to keep the remaining costs under $1000.

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Carl Willis
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Re: Current State and Item Lists - Any advice?

Post by Carl Willis » Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:24 am

When you get a chance, please upgrade your user name to the form [firstname lastname] as requested in the Rules.

You have some good equipment on hand that will serve you well in any kind of fusion project.

The first big upgrade, and one that will allow you to make neutrons in detectable numbers, is a high-vacuum pump (turbo or diffusion). Good opportunities within your remaining budget abound on eBay.

I don't think you can take this project all the way to the Neutron Club in three months from where you are now. It is possible of course, but that's a very steep learning curve. I think you can have a nice demo fusor with an air plasma in that time, and a great foundation for making neutrons later on this year.

I'm unfamiliar with Dave Coultier or his quartz feedthrough concept. To get feedback on that, you maybe should try to explain what it entails. I'm skeptical that it will be economical to tool up for working quartz when there are a lot of viable feedthrough options that are less demanding of special equipment, skills, and materials. Anyway, an oxy-hydrogen torch that is inexpensive and commercially available is the National 3H from Premier Industries. If you are familiar with the 3A blowpipe, the 3H is identical except for the stainless plumbing. You would buy stainless tips to use with it. Hydrogen is inexpensive, but is sold under higher scrutiny than oxygen, acetylene, argon, and other industrial gases (perhaps it is listed as a drug precursor?). Regulators suitable for hydrogen are not too common.

-Carl
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Rich Feldman
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Re: Current State and Item Lists - Any advice?

Post by Rich Feldman » Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:26 am

FWishbringer wrote:
> Items Owned:
> 304 Chamber with 1x8CF, 4x6CF, 1x2.75CF ports ($500)
...
> As per resources available, I'm a member of IEEE, ACM, and ANS.
>
> So, how am I doing for the build? ...

Welcome, Fred. (just guessing).
First advice:
Read the rules that you acknowledged when you registered here.
1) Use your real name.
2) Start by introducing yourself in the Please Introduce Yourself forum.

With that said, you appear to have done a lot more reading and planning than most first-time posters here. I'm looking forward to seeing pictures!
-Rich
All models are wrong; some models are useful. -- George Box

felyza
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Re: Current State and Item Lists - Any advice?

Post by felyza » Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:36 am


felyza
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 3:10 am
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Re: Current State and Item Lists - Any advice?

Post by felyza » Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:46 am

---
Subject Rules
Posted by John Hendron on 2010-09-26 07:39
As the forum grows it is more important for members to adhere to the rules - real names are required - not pseudo names - the forum is not a democracy, it is a dictatorship ( I'm not afraid to use this word correctly ) - the person who owns it, sets the rules and is the only person who can break them - it is a measure of Paul that he allows democracy and shows patience but needs to be respected - some subjects are taboo and members would be well advised to respect them - the moderator has ultimate sanction but is fair and tolerant - don't break the rules. Paul is owed a vote of thanks.

The forum is about IEC fusion and fusor related matters only and if you don't want to obey the rules don't come here.
---
My real first initial is F and my real last name is Wishbringer. As I do not use my first name, I went ahead and put in my middle name so you can call me something other than what I'm used to seeing. Hopefully that works for all parties other than me.

That said... http://www.coultersmithing.com/AuxCP/FT.html covers what I want to achieve, and thanks for the input about torches.

Jack Puntawong
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Re: Current State and Item Lists - Any advice?

Post by Jack Puntawong » Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:46 am

Welcome Mr. Wishbringer! (cool last name)

Looks like you have a lot of equipment handy for your fusor. It would be really helpful to draw us your set-up that we can give you advice. However, looking at your equipment, I think you are going to need a diffusion pump that'll take your pressure down to about 1E-6 torr.This thing cost around $80-150 on ebay. I recommend that you look for an "air cooled" diffusion pump and you'll need a throttling valve to control the diffusion pump too.

The gauge you might want to look at is active inverted magnetron gauge. It reads pressure between 1E-2 torr to 1E-8 torr You can buy this off ebay for around $200 and you don't really need the gauge meter. You can read of the pressure from the voltage/pressure conversion chart on the gauge manual.

Any way, please post some pictures of your material and your current visualized set-up. We'll be able to help you that way.


Jack Puntawong

Ps. My real name is "Kunakorn" but I uses my nickname, Jack. Hope that's alright. "Kunakorn" is hard to pronounce anyway.

felyza
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Re: Current State and Item Lists - Any advice?

Post by felyza » Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:31 pm

My first name (Felyza) is commonly mistaken for a female's name, so for any professional activities I do not use it. 'In the wild', my friends and family call me something other than my name; and at school and work I go by my last name thanks to being around so many ex-military. My degree coordinator at school is retired Air Force, so everyone in the engineering dept uses last names, and it sort of stuck. I use my middle name in some games, and it's not mistaken for a female name, so I don't mind giving it too much. I apologize for getting defensive last night, first post I got a response to, and two people complained about my name as if I gave something false; the other also complimented me on my first post, too bad that was back in 2011. I've been doing research since then, finally have funds and capstone course.

That said, attaching ebay photos of everything I have either received or ordered.

The 1400 rebuild kit didn't have a photo, it's a major overhaul kit with viton seals and CI vane.

In my response to Carl Willis, I linked the feedthrough I plan to attempt. I got the two 8" blanks for $40 each + shipping. Going to see if I can get a machine shop to add a 4.5"CF port to one, for the feedthrough, so I can still have a blank in case they mess up. Worst case scenario, I'll get a 6-something reducer for it, unless I find a 6" I can simply use for it.

Ideal topology is this:
8.00 to feedthrough
6.00 to viewport
6.00 to deuterium
6.00 to gauge
6.00 to blank
2.75 to vacuum

Assuming I find great deals on items, and a failure on the 8" cut, and pick up a secondary gauge and vacuum pump then I'll go with this topology:
8.00 to blank
6.00 to viewport
6.00 to deuterium
6.00 to feedthrough
6.00 to 2.75 to T to gauges
2.75 to T to pumps

From my reading, I want to keep deuterium supply opposite from the pumps, and ideally turning corners. I believe someone said a 135 degree angle was ideal, however I'll be settling for a half-square wave motion (horizontal->vertical->horizontal) with the IEC located at the first turn. I was thinking setting up pump, viewport, and blanks and using generated fog to determine path of flow and reposition in one of three locations; which would be wasteful of gaskets, but would help make sure I'm at the optimum position. I'd just have to bake it after to remove any excess water.

I really want a turbo pump and ion gauge too, but don't plan on purchasing them until after I have enough parts to at least get a really good demo fusor going.

For initial tests, it's going to be a lot of low power bakeout demo work until I'm happy with the setup. Then, assuming I'm free of bad leaks, I aim to shoot for 30-40kV trial runs. Once I've gotten my feet wet and built a little confidence in my setup, then I'm wanting to try two different paths. I'd love to see what happens at higher power (>90kV, which presents many problems of it's own).. and I'm curious if it's possible to achieve fusion in a 1.33 cube. I've heard of 2.75 crosses, a 1.33 cube would lower the vacuum and power requirements significantly. The experimentation will come after proof of concept though.

Edit: Forgot to do the attachment. I put them together to save space.
Attachments
allitems.jpg

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Rich Feldman
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Re: Current State and Item Lists - Any advice?

Post by Rich Feldman » Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:16 pm

Pleased to meet you, Wishbringer.
Nice pictures, and you were considerate to merge them.

Sorry I missed the introduction you posted in 2011. Before replying to your Current State message last night, I dutifully used the Search by Author feature, and got only the fresh message. Must have forgotten to uncheck "This Forum".

I APPLAUD the fact that you found your own answers during the scrounging phase, until you had almost everything and called for a review. Sets a good example for people who like to dribble in questions that have been asked many times before.

As Carl said, your rotary pump probably won't develop a low enough pressure for easily verified fusion.
Do you have a program schedule with milestones between now and May?
You can put most everything in your pictures to use, and light up a good-looking plasma, while waiting for a good deal on a diffusion pump or turbo pump. Just think about where that new pump will eventually go on your chamber, keeping in mind "this end up" requirements and the limited vacuum conductance of hoses. Good luck!

-Rich
All models are wrong; some models are useful. -- George Box

felyza
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Re: Current State and Item Lists - Any advice?

Post by felyza » Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:48 am

At least you searched, even if you forgot to uncheck a box. These definitely are not the easiest forums to navigate. If it wasn't _the_ source for fusor information, and that I have a high pain tolerance, the click to view posts would have long ago dissuaded me.

I realize the Welch 1400 is on the low end of vacuum pumps for fusion. That's why I also intend to do a full rebuild on it. Not as good as new, let alone a dual pump system. Upside is, if it works well, I -might- get some neutron readings of value. Yes, I've seen a lot of information on a 1400 rebuild, including the fact it is quite 'fun'. I'm going into the rebuild knowing it is only possible by someone with an excess of patience for mechanical things.

As per the deuterium system, it's lower on the totem pole than getting a demo fusor going. To cover what I'm planning on: hydrolysis of heavy water, drying hydrogen through palladium foil, regulated by a modified self-regulating needle valve (seen on the forums here).

Upside is, I know where my biggest faults are, and consider them not faults, but areas for improvement. Since I'm not 100% sure on everything, that's why I wanted to get a review. Looks like I'm pretty much good since the things people are suggesting are the points I already knew needed some work.

I do appreciate the critique from everyone. I'm actually hoping someone finds a flaw I didn't already expect in my system.

Also, ordered a batch of 2x 6" blanks and a 6"-1.33" reducer. Was < $100 for the lot, shipped. Only other thing I NEED is a viewport. Really hoping I can catch a good deal on ebay. There's a 6" viewport over on Ebay now, but I don't want a 6" viewport. I'd rather have a 2.75" with <1.5" glass, just to make shielding easier.

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Richard Hull
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Re: Current State and Item Lists - Any advice?

Post by Richard Hull » Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:51 pm

My first fusion back in 1999 did not have a formal secondary pump. However, Fusor III did use the good offices of the "micromaze" which pulled the system a full order of magnitude lower in pressure (barely sub-micron). The foregoing being said, a formal secondary pump is demanded if the fusion is to be useful in any research effort.

The best I ever achieved with the micromaze was a bit over 100,000 neutrons per second and then only for a minute or two. The mere addition of a diffusion pump has allowed me to hit 1,200,000 neutrons per second in my best run with fusor IV.

Any fusion over 200,000 n/s will allow decent activation work to be done, provided careful measurements are taken and the fusion rate can be maintained for a decent fraction of the half life involved.

Serious fusion with a fusor demands a secondary pump.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

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