Source of Heavy Water Needed

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Jim Kovalchick
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Source of Heavy Water Needed

Post by Jim Kovalchick » Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:11 pm

I apologize if information is posted somewhere in past forum posts, but I'm running into some road blocks.

I am trying to find a source of about 100 ml of deuterium oxide and the same amount of deuterium depleted water. My daughter wants to use it for a project to investigate biological impacts.

I ran into all kinds of trouble trying to find deuterium gas for Mike's fusor project, and I assumed that those issues were related to purchase of a compressed flammable gas. While I'm still working on getting him some deuterium gas, I thought that by getting some water for my daughter's project I would be helping her and creating a electrolysis source for Mike as a backup.

Well, now my inquiries to supply houses are being shot down even for heavy water too. I'm being told that the issue is not the specific chemical but a general philosophy of not sending anything to a private residence.

Does anyone have the name of a supplier that they have successfully ordered from recently?

Thanks for the help.

Jim K

Tyler Christensen
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Re: Source of Heavy Water Needed

Post by Tyler Christensen » Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:16 pm

United Nuclear will sell to just about anybody, and does stock heavy water. For deuterium depleted water, I would suggest the sink unless you are doing extremely precise experimentation (I don't think it's possible to monitor biological impacts to a degree where tap water would be any different from specifically depleted water, then again I'm no biology expert).

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Jim Kovalchick
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Re: Source of Heavy Water Needed

Post by Jim Kovalchick » Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:46 pm

Thanks Tyler. I will try United Nuclear.

Tap water is going to have about 160 ppm D in it. Some previous research shows that some cells are impacted by even that quantity.

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Carl Willis
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Re: Source of Heavy Water Needed

Post by Carl Willis » Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:59 pm

I bought a liter of the heavy drink from Cambridge Isotopes at a great price last year, but had to do it through my company as they don't sell to individuals. If you want some ordered for you, I would be happy to do it. The downside is that it would have to be shipped to me first.

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Chris Bradley
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Re: Source of Heavy Water Needed

Post by Chris Bradley » Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:55 pm

For deuterium-reduced water, use rain water and distill it. If you have a still, or can fabricate one, re-distill rain or tap water a few times, boiling off only a fraction of the water each time.

There is a propensity for deuterium oxide to get left behind during distillation and electrolysis. What actually gets shifted off therefore tends to have less D in it.

I guess this is why you often hear the 'press-speak' of 'so-and-so-much sea-water' contains enough deuterium for whatever fusion-related thing they are trying to peddle - because rain water contains less D, by an amount I am not sure I have ever seen quantified - I guess it is variable.

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Richard Hull
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Re: Source of Heavy Water Needed

Post by Richard Hull » Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:49 pm

Carl tells it right...again. The secret is to order from your company, have it sent there but pay with your credit card over the phone. I tend to...
1. set up an account for my company with the entity I need to order from. This gets you a customer number with logged in shipping address.
2. Know the name of your salesperson and chat 'em up. (log it for future calls and reference)
3. Call, give your customer number and place the order.
4. Tell them your purchasing agent is out sick today and you need the gas, heavy water, whatever, immediately and will just give them your master card number to get the stuff on order and you will get re-imbursed later by turning in your receipt.

All the above has worked for me for many years.

Most companies want the sale and anyone's money, but only feel warm and fuzzy shipping to a business address that is a registered buyer from them.

Regading D2 gas......if you live in a big metro area, go to the largest welding gas supply place and they can order D2 for you in a small 50 liter lecture bottle and outfit you with the proper brass adapters for your pressure gauge set while there.

I have, in the past, purchased my gas using both methods described above. If asked for what you intend to use it, tell them... spectral lamp assembly and testing as you need the H beta line for spectrum doppler shift work in plasmas. Most will be somewhat nonplussed at this and let it go, but be prepared to discuss accelerating ion doppler shifting of the H beta line if you get a smarty pants who pushes back.

Regulations are , indeed, tightening up and needlessly so, but workarounds always seem possible.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

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Frank Sanns
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Re: Source of Heavy Water Needed

Post by Frank Sanns » Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:51 pm

Since we only drink rainwater does that mean that our bodies have a lower isotopic ratio?

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Richard Hull
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Re: Source of Heavy Water Needed

Post by Richard Hull » Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:10 pm

I think you can only get depleted water with the taint of non-simple protium nuclear isotopes removed at the special hippy type organic "natural" food stores. Ask for Willow. She's the one with the earth shoes and granny dress. It is normally sold in 4 oz. bottles located between the vegie-burger and tofu counters.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

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Jim Kovalchick
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Re: Source of Heavy Water Needed

Post by Jim Kovalchick » Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:42 pm

Richard,
I had already briefly thought about your approach, but when you work where I do its problematic. I work in a secure area and all material comes through with a documented and process driven approach. Your approach seems logical but maybe just not for my situation.

As an alternative, I am hoping a friendly relationship I have with a small scale science equipment business in the area will be a more practical solution. I am currently working on an agreement to work through them. They seem agreeable so far, but it hasn't happened yet.

I actually considered the idea of incorporating a non-profit science education business to act as a business. There is a couple hundred dollar filling fee, but I am afraid that even after I represent a business they will come up with another excuse like not wanting to ship to a private residence.

As far as walking into the local welding supply, I tried that. Because they don't keep deuterium stocked, they referred me to a regional sales person who nixed me.

I don't think any of the supplier reps get hung up on the purpose as an excuse for why they won't sell to me. They have said it is purely a policy of not selling to a non-business with delivery to a private residence. I'm pretty sure that if they sold H2O, they wouldn't send it to me.

I have asked a couple suppliers about sending deuterium to my son's school. They have nixed that idea and said that a high school was not good enough. They did say they would send it to a university. Local universities are not going to accept delivery of goods like that unless they were for university sponsored research.

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Re: Source of Heavy Water Needed

Post by Tyler Christensen » Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:47 pm

Do you have a specialty gas headquarters location within driving distance? I was striking out for months getting deuterium gas, then I walked in and there were no questions, handed them a credit card and came back in two weeks and picked it up. Didn't even have to give them my name or sign anything about resale, safety, etc. So it seems they are impossible to work with over the phone or email, but in person they don't really care.

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