Aneutronic fusion questions...

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Starfire
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Re: Aneutronic fusion questions...

Post by Starfire » Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:25 pm

Correction Richard - I have played with the p-B11 for years - a Boron salt in a tiny sub-mm size well in a 1/2" tungsten slug down a 2 mtr deep well in a pond - latest problem ( and there has been many ) is with a final chamber - search for B11 in the forums - but I agree it's problematic and taxes patience - I've spent a small fortune chasing the B11 dream - not for the feint hearted nor those who expect quick success.


My Ion Gun head ( proton source ) with glass insulator above the well ;-

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2947&hilit=b11#p12457

Richard Hester
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Re: Aneutronic fusion questions...

Post by Richard Hester » Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:52 pm

Well yeah, but yours is more a gunned approach than a fusor or polywell.

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Richard Hull
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Re: Aneutronic fusion questions...

Post by Richard Hull » Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:13 pm

The U of W folks used a PIPS or surface barrier detector for proton detection. Apparently it worked OK. PIPs are also used for Alpha spec work. However, using a PIPS in a fusor will probably obviate its future use for spectrowork as they warn about smoke or grease depositions affecting spectro accuracy. The fusor would deposit cathode material all over the detector. The detector would still detect, it just would not do a good job on energy after protratcted periods. As we all know, PIPS detectors are pricey and you need the biased preamp, etc., to make it all go as a detector/counter.

While not getting precise data from PIPS you should easily discriminate against the 40kev electrons impacting it and a multi-mev proton.

Richard Hull
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Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

Spencer DePue
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Re: Aneutronic fusion questions...

Post by Spencer DePue » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:35 pm

Theoretically speaking, if you hook up a 12 volt car battery with say 100 amps, and combine it in parallel with a cm by cm z-cut lithium tantalate crystal that is heated in a vacuum to produce 100,000 volts according to the "Observation of nuclear fusion driven by a pyroelectric crystal", you should get the sum of the two amperage sources which is 100 amps + 4 nano-amps = 100.000000004 amps. However, the information that I don't know is if the two separate voltages are added or if the circuit takes the average which in this case would be
100,012 volts / 2 = 50,006 volts. Overall the wattage would be immense during the heating time of the crystal. 50,006 volts x 100 amps = 5,000600 watts. Of course resistance would weaken this wattage, but not by much. I have realized that the polywell may not be the best approach and I should possibly look into dense plasma focus instead.

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Rich Feldman
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Re: Aneutronic fusion questions...

Post by Rich Feldman » Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:16 pm

Spencer DePue wrote:
> Theoretically speaking, if you hook up a 12 volt car battery with say 100 amps, and combine it in parallel with a cm by cm z-cut lithium tantalate crystal that is heated in a vacuum to produce 100,000 volts according to the "Observation of nuclear fusion driven by a pyroelectric crystal", you should get the sum of the two amperage sources which is 100 amps + 4 nano-amps = 100.000000004 amps. However, the information that I don't know is if the two separate voltages are added or if the circuit takes the average which in this case would be
> 100,012 volts / 2 = 50,006 volts. Overall the wattage would be immense during the heating time of the crystal. 50,006 volts x 100 amps = 5,000600 watts. Of course resistance would weaken this wattage, but not by much. I have realized that the polywell may not be the best approach and I should possibly look into dense plasma focus instead.

Spencer, with all due respect:
Good thing you realize that you "don't get" some fundamentals of electric circuits. Sounds like you expect to get at least 5 MW out of a battery, a crystal, and a crystal heater. Why bother with fusion? With 5 MW you can recharge the battery, heat/cool the crystal, and save mankind with the surplus.

Your answer will be clear when you draw us a schematic diagram, showing both of your hypothetical sources, and their connection to each other and to the load.
Use your specified voltage and/or current sources and resistors of realistic value,
then figure out (it should be trivial) the branch currents and node voltages.
Understanding that much about electricity is a prerequisite for making fusion at home, so let's start today!
Fortunately for most readers, basic electricity tutorials have no place in this forum.
All models are wrong; some models are useful. -- George Box

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Brian McDermott
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Re: Aneutronic fusion questions...

Post by Brian McDermott » Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:46 am

I worked on pyroelectric fusion for a few years as an undergraduate research project. It's great for small, portable x-ray/neutron sources and as a general purpose ion source. Anything power production-related with pyroelectric crystals is so unrealistic that it's not even dream-worthy.

All the published literature on the topic echoes these statements.

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Frank Sanns
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Re: Aneutronic fusion questions...

Post by Frank Sanns » Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:54 am

Voltage is parallel circuits is equal in all parts. The crystal produces high voltage low current. Combining the two of these will give 12volts and 100.00000000004 amps in parallel OR 100,000 volts and a nanoamp in series (isolated).

Frank Sanns


Spencer DePue wrote:
> Theoretically speaking, if you hook up a 12 volt car battery with say 100 amps, and combine it in parallel with a cm by cm z-cut lithium tantalate crystal that is heated in a vacuum to produce 100,000 volts according to the "Observation of nuclear fusion driven by a pyroelectric crystal", you should get the sum of the two amperage sources which is 100 amps + 4 nano-amps = 100.000000004 amps. However, the information that I don't know is if the two separate voltages are added or if the circuit takes the average which in this case would be
> 100,012 volts / 2 = 50,006 volts. Overall the wattage would be immense during the heating time of the crystal. 50,006 volts x 100 amps = 5,000600 watts. Of course resistance would weaken this wattage, but not by much. I have realized that the polywell may not be the best approach and I should possibly look into dense plasma focus instead.

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Re: Aneutronic fusion questions...

Post by Spencer DePue » Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:04 am

yeah.. i just tested 2 batteries with different voltages in parallel. I got the lower end of the volts.
Do any of you have any ideas for me to develop the simplest high voltage/amp source? The reason why I tried the pyroelectric approach was because I get incredibly frustrated when working with complex electronics/ soldering and all that other stuff. I guess i need to work on this a little more.

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Rich Feldman
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Re: Aneutronic fusion questions...

Post by Rich Feldman » Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:13 am

Spencer DePue wrote:
> yeah.. i just tested 2 batteries with different voltages in parallel. I got the lower end of the volts.

Speaking for myself, you just earned a substantial raise in respectability
by doing an experiment to answer your question. Hurrah for Spencer!
I mean that sincerely.

With more experiments you may get complementary results,
and develop a more sophisticated mental model of what is happening.
For example: with a 12V car battery in parallel with a watch battery,
I bet you will get the higher of the volts. Learn why!
(And please wear eye protection when forcing batteries into unnatural couplings.)

> Do any of you have any ideas for me to develop the simplest high voltage/amp source?

RTFF.
All models are wrong; some models are useful. -- George Box

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Frank Sanns
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Re: Aneutronic fusion questions...

Post by Frank Sanns » Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:29 am

This is a very unwise and dangerous suggestion. In the case of the insulating crystal there is high resistance in the crystal so dangerous currents can not develop. In the case of a watch battery, the internal resistance is low. Putting 12 volts across a 1.5 or 3 volt battery will cause the battery to flow many times more than its short circuit current and it will explode in very short order. For this reason never put different voltage sources in parallel especially low impedance ones.

Frank Sanns


Rich Feldman wrote:
> Spencer DePue wrote:
> > yeah.. i just tested 2 batteries with different voltages in parallel. I got the lower end of the volts.
>
> Speaking for myself, you just earned a substantial raise in respectability
> by doing an experiment to answer your question. Hurrah for Spencer!
> I mean that sincerely.
>
> With more experiments you may get complementary results,
> and develop a more sophisticated mental model of what is happening.
> For example: with a 12V car battery in parallel with a watch battery,
> I bet you will get the higher of the volts. Learn why!
> (And please wear eye protection when forcing batteries into unnatural couplings.)
>
> > Do any of you have any ideas for me to develop the simplest high voltage/amp source?
>
> RTFF.

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