Hi Guys,
I just received delivery of a new Hytek 12 channel USB data logger, it only cost $89.00 and you can download some great free software for it too.
I have not tried it in real live situation yet, but I installed the software and plugged it in, and it seems really neat. I intend to use 4 or 5 channels to log the following;
* Voltage
* Current
* Vacuum
* X-Rays
* Neutrons
having a continuous reading of all these parameters will bring the experiments to a whole new level (shame it does not have an input for bubbles).
By the way, thanks to Gabriel for finding this product..
(must have been when he wasn't flogging the electroscope horse )
http://www.hytekautomation.com/Products/IUSBDAQ.html
Steven
PC Data Logger
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Steven Sesselmann
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PC Data Logger
http://www.gammaspectacular.com - Gamma Spectrometry Systems
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Steven_Sesselmann - Various papers and patents on RG
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Steven_Sesselmann - Various papers and patents on RG
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gabrielArgentina
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Re: PC Data Logger
Steven.. maybe is possible with simple optoelectronic device & associated circuit make a bubble detector and use the counter events inputs of your new toys!!.
When neutron is detected...The bubble rise slowly or is like a micro explosion?.
In a normal test session how many bubble do you expect ?.
The diameter bubble are consistent after repeated neutron hits?
Enjoy new toys!!
Gabriel.
When neutron is detected...The bubble rise slowly or is like a micro explosion?.
In a normal test session how many bubble do you expect ?.
The diameter bubble are consistent after repeated neutron hits?
Enjoy new toys!!
Gabriel.
Re: PC Data Logger
A capacitive proximity sensor may also work for a bubble counter.
Scott
Scott
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Jon Rosenstiel
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Richard Hull
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Re: PC Data Logger
I have a Pico 12 channel AtoD converter with software and have used it as a data logger with its supplied software on several occasions, but not with the fusor. I am a bit leary of computers in and about the fusor, but now have a couple of spare older PC's that I might devote to the next iteration.
Richard Hull
Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Jon Rosenstiel
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Re: PC Data Logger
The Hytek Steven has appears similar to the DataQ logger I bought a couple of years back.
http://www.dataq.com/products/startkit/di148.htm
I don't know how EMP proof the logger is, but I did find that my laptop's USB port did not take kindly to the EMP my fusor was sending its way.
Jon Rosenstiel
http://www.dataq.com/products/startkit/di148.htm
I don't know how EMP proof the logger is, but I did find that my laptop's USB port did not take kindly to the EMP my fusor was sending its way.
Jon Rosenstiel
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gabrielArgentina
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Re: PC Data Logger
http://rpd.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/conte ... 96/1-3/261
Like Carl Wills discovery ,this guy make the same things..acoustical detection bubble..nice!
And the Chinese guys make his own bubble detectors..maybe more cheap!!. http://rpd.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/conte ... 20/1-4/491
Question:the tube is a glass or plastic ? ..the gel is under pressure inside the tube?..can be opened and put the gel in a other container specifically designed for optical detection ?..are both end accessible ? , I was think about put the bubble tube inside an other ,for block ambient light ,then we can easy measure the local discontinuity in index refraction on the gel ,that bubble produce..with only a led and photo detectors right placed and some simple electronics !!, means no acoustical noise ,no high impedance circuits, nice too!.
I see some pic bubble and has different size and shape ...is any correlation with neutron energy , mean big bubble-->high energetic neutron?.
Thanks .
Like Carl Wills discovery ,this guy make the same things..acoustical detection bubble..nice!
And the Chinese guys make his own bubble detectors..maybe more cheap!!. http://rpd.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/conte ... 20/1-4/491
Question:the tube is a glass or plastic ? ..the gel is under pressure inside the tube?..can be opened and put the gel in a other container specifically designed for optical detection ?..are both end accessible ? , I was think about put the bubble tube inside an other ,for block ambient light ,then we can easy measure the local discontinuity in index refraction on the gel ,that bubble produce..with only a led and photo detectors right placed and some simple electronics !!, means no acoustical noise ,no high impedance circuits, nice too!.
I see some pic bubble and has different size and shape ...is any correlation with neutron energy , mean big bubble-->high energetic neutron?.
Thanks .
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Wilfried Heil
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Re: PC Data Logger
This review article will tell you more about the bubble detectors. These were pioneered by Robert. E. Apfel in New Haven, CT.
>viewtopic.php?f=19&t=7986#p57390
Steven -
As for the data logger: good idea, let us know how it performs. I think some form of galvanic isolation will be absolutely needed. If the data logger doesn't have that, it'll be next to impossible to retrofit it later. You could buy a USB to fiberoptic link, but that'll cost you several times more than the data logger.
>http://www.meilhaus.de/fileadmin/upload ... _usbgt.pdf
My computer already resets periodically just because it is on the same power line as the fusor supply.
>viewtopic.php?f=19&t=7986#p57390
Steven -
As for the data logger: good idea, let us know how it performs. I think some form of galvanic isolation will be absolutely needed. If the data logger doesn't have that, it'll be next to impossible to retrofit it later. You could buy a USB to fiberoptic link, but that'll cost you several times more than the data logger.
>http://www.meilhaus.de/fileadmin/upload ... _usbgt.pdf
My computer already resets periodically just because it is on the same power line as the fusor supply.
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gabrielArgentina
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Re: PC Data Logger
The better galvanic isolation......even you don't need to buy!!.
Just use a battery notebook run off the outlet wall power!. put the data logger very near the pc...put the pc and you far from the fusor...and every body happy!!.
Normally the hour or more of autonomy will be sufficient , for the kind of fusor test.
Gabriel.
Just use a battery notebook run off the outlet wall power!. put the data logger very near the pc...put the pc and you far from the fusor...and every body happy!!.
Normally the hour or more of autonomy will be sufficient , for the kind of fusor test.
Gabriel.
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Jon Rosenstiel
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Re: PC Data Logger
Gabriel-
Been there, done that, and everybody wasn't happy, particularly the laptop.
Jon Rosenstiel
Been there, done that, and everybody wasn't happy, particularly the laptop.
Jon Rosenstiel
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Steven Sesselmann
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Re: PC Data Logger
Hi Guys,
Thanks for all the good advise. I am aware of the problems associated with having a computer anywhere near the HV equipment, especially my stuff, which tends to be noisier than most.
I really need to work out a way to build a shielded room around everything except the control panel. First I will try to use coaxial cables between the equipment and the data logger and see how that goes.
As for detecting bubbles, it should be good enough to calibrate the electronic detectors a couple of times with the BTI and then rely on the electronic measurements for experimentation purposes, but thanks for all the suggestions anyway.
Has anyone had experience connecting a Hastings vacuum gauge to a data logger?
The analog inputs on the data logger have a range of 0-5V
Steven
Thanks for all the good advise. I am aware of the problems associated with having a computer anywhere near the HV equipment, especially my stuff, which tends to be noisier than most.
I really need to work out a way to build a shielded room around everything except the control panel. First I will try to use coaxial cables between the equipment and the data logger and see how that goes.
As for detecting bubbles, it should be good enough to calibrate the electronic detectors a couple of times with the BTI and then rely on the electronic measurements for experimentation purposes, but thanks for all the suggestions anyway.
Has anyone had experience connecting a Hastings vacuum gauge to a data logger?
The analog inputs on the data logger have a range of 0-5V
Steven
http://www.gammaspectacular.com - Gamma Spectrometry Systems
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Steven_Sesselmann - Various papers and patents on RG
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Steven_Sesselmann - Various papers and patents on RG
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gabrielArgentina
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Re: PC Data Logger
Jon I do several time this kind of float measure with a battery DSO (digital storage oscilloscope).that can "not" do with line plugged DSO, near Xray equipment .
And in the fusor case ..all the relevant signal are low frequency..almost DC !. is not a hard task for who knows about electronics and noise environments , make a simple low pass filters & differential analog inputs.
Steven be aware about coax cable ...in special the ground loop , if make the mistake of connect both shields ends to at different and separated ground.
I was thinking about the failure in your PSU..and if your output cable is a coaxial one with all his shields.....then you ave a powerful transmission line pulse generator!!! and at the accidental spark instance..send back to the PSU a pulse with reverted polarity that blow up those series resistors inside the potted multiplier.
Ps:Still my DSO and note book are happy!.
And in the fusor case ..all the relevant signal are low frequency..almost DC !. is not a hard task for who knows about electronics and noise environments , make a simple low pass filters & differential analog inputs.
Steven be aware about coax cable ...in special the ground loop , if make the mistake of connect both shields ends to at different and separated ground.
I was thinking about the failure in your PSU..and if your output cable is a coaxial one with all his shields.....then you ave a powerful transmission line pulse generator!!! and at the accidental spark instance..send back to the PSU a pulse with reverted polarity that blow up those series resistors inside the potted multiplier.
Ps:Still my DSO and note book are happy!.
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Richard Hull
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Re: PC Data Logger
The voltage has only a little to do with the noise. The noise is HF RF POWER noise!
Depending on the arrangment and more or less shielding effort, hundreds to tens of thousands of peak pulse power watts are attacking any line that will accept even the tiniest portion of the transmission. Ground bounce is common when running only a 400 watt RMS fusor which might be putting out 50KW peak pulse signal on occasion. It only takes one occasion to spoil data, reset the cpu or blow the crap out of just one of the semiconductors in a 200,000 semi substrate in a CPU.
This is why even rather old spartan electronic neutron counters with discrete components that are rather immune to damage will still give error counts in the rattle noise of a fusor.
You should consider using an old clunker computer with your data logger if its operating system is compatible with its software. Most stuff will still fly with win98
Richard Hull
Depending on the arrangment and more or less shielding effort, hundreds to tens of thousands of peak pulse power watts are attacking any line that will accept even the tiniest portion of the transmission. Ground bounce is common when running only a 400 watt RMS fusor which might be putting out 50KW peak pulse signal on occasion. It only takes one occasion to spoil data, reset the cpu or blow the crap out of just one of the semiconductors in a 200,000 semi substrate in a CPU.
This is why even rather old spartan electronic neutron counters with discrete components that are rather immune to damage will still give error counts in the rattle noise of a fusor.
You should consider using an old clunker computer with your data logger if its operating system is compatible with its software. Most stuff will still fly with win98
Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Re: PC Data Logger
A reference that should be useful for electronic noise control issues:
"Noise Reduction Techniques in Electronic Systems"
by Henry W. Ott 1st Pub. 1976 , Wiley Interscience
ISBN 0-471-65726-3.
Lots of good practical stuff. Henry Ott was a member of technical staff at Bell Labs, during the good ole days.
RF shielding is generally like building a pressure tight (or vacuum tight) container. No leaks means no ... leaks! . Problem is the signal input. Input filtering and feedthroughs can do a lot, provided they have the necessary pass band.
One key concept is to treat ground shields and any other "ground" wires as conductors having their own characteristic impedance. The ground symbol often hides the source of the problem, by masking the actual ground conductor.
At times, once the correct circuit is drawn, how (or whether) to shield is obvious... but not always.
Most HV labs rely on Fiber optic data links to handle the unavoidable transient ground rise noise. We've used shielded very high voltage x-ray cable, as well as the 60 kV silicone rubber insulated, unshielded wires. WIth big splashes and high currents RF and EMI are still everywhere. Not a simple problem to surpress, usually.
Dave Cooper
"Noise Reduction Techniques in Electronic Systems"
by Henry W. Ott 1st Pub. 1976 , Wiley Interscience
ISBN 0-471-65726-3.
Lots of good practical stuff. Henry Ott was a member of technical staff at Bell Labs, during the good ole days.
RF shielding is generally like building a pressure tight (or vacuum tight) container. No leaks means no ... leaks! . Problem is the signal input. Input filtering and feedthroughs can do a lot, provided they have the necessary pass band.
One key concept is to treat ground shields and any other "ground" wires as conductors having their own characteristic impedance. The ground symbol often hides the source of the problem, by masking the actual ground conductor.
At times, once the correct circuit is drawn, how (or whether) to shield is obvious... but not always.
Most HV labs rely on Fiber optic data links to handle the unavoidable transient ground rise noise. We've used shielded very high voltage x-ray cable, as well as the 60 kV silicone rubber insulated, unshielded wires. WIth big splashes and high currents RF and EMI are still everywhere. Not a simple problem to surpress, usually.
Dave Cooper