Should I worry about purchasing contaminated components?

[Ian_B]

Hello everyone,

As always I appreciate your help in answering my questions!!

Anyways I am in the process of collecting components for a fusor; I have been looking at mostly used components from Ebay and other similar sources. Recently I began wondering if I should be concerned about receiving contaminated products (toxins, radioactive contamination ect....) that could be potentially hazardous to myself. If so what can I do to effectively reduce my possible risk? Any insight that you can provide will help


Thanks!!

~Ian

[Carl Willis]

Ian,

EBay is a complete toss-up. The most routinely encountered serious contaminant would probably be PCBs in electrical oils (capacitors, transformers, high-voltage tanks). They can break down readily into carcinogenic dioxins. Vacuum pump oil can be full of nasty surprises and should always be changed first thing upon receiving the pump. Radioactive contamination is probably very uncommon because of protocols to eliminate it from the waste stream of facilities where it arises. If you get something seriously radioactive in surplus, you're a lucky guy!

-Carl

[Nanos]

On Ebay/etc. I try and look to get things from people who might be able to tell me the history of the part, or pieces still shrink wrapped and never used out of the box!

I too worry about that aspect, perhaps more than the average builder.

Probably based in part after I found out years ago how low level radioactive contaminated furniture/etc. destined for landifll never made it and was instead used for firewood and/or sold by haulers..


So I'd much rather buy/get something from say a university where they could tell me what it had previously been used for, or from a person who works for a company that used to use the parts in a particular process and could help with sounding convincing on the history side of things.

If in any doubt about their story, just say no!

Probably the first useful tool to get is something to measure radioative contamination, and to learn what to use to clean things.

[Chris Bradley]

Radioactive wood! Cool! Are we talking beta emitting 15C here, or from a Chernobyl office clearance sale with embedded substances? I trust ex-hosptial radiotherapy isotopes, as per the Gioania accident, won't find their way onto ebay. I very much hope we are safe from that likelihood - but there again......

[Nanos]

All I know is the stuff was from Sellafield UK.

Sadly, we aren't so good in the UK when it comes to dealing with waste, there is a case of a reactor buried in a field, and mysterious drums buried 100ft+ under Heathrow airport, discovered by accident in I think October 1994, using the excuse that a tunnel they was building collasped, but oddly paid the workers involved several $k to keep their mouths shut to the media. (I have a tendancy to encourage people to tell me interesting stories.. plus having worked with classified government files, I got to see an awful lot that worried me. (I only mention here stuff that is declassified, though it doesn't mean its easy to find!))

Thats why my next home is going to be of a bunker design with button up potentional just to be on the safe side


And the new site for the Olympics is opening a can of worms in that area:

http://www.notjustlondon.com/page24.htm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/art ... ture.shtml

http://www.gamesmonitor.org.uk/node/406

> A new document reveals a second case of radioactive waste dumped in 1953
> in a former landfill site within the Park.
>
> as well as a small experimental nuclear reactor run by Queen Mary’s College


I wouldn't be surpised if some items coming from Russia might well be from areas we wouldn't be entirely happy about people collecting stuff from, eg;

http://www.bellona.org/english_import_a ... ning/33607


For those interested, a more PR friendly version of how we are supposed to do it;

http://www.ingenia.org.uk/ingenia/artic ... ?Index=140

[Ian_B]

I actually started to worry about this when I was looking for electrical components and a lot of the ones that would be good for my uses were russian military surplus, kinda figured they might have some contamination. Especially after reading that last article.

thanks for the great replies


Nanos wrote:
> All I know is the stuff was from Sellafield UK.
>
> Sadly, we aren't so good in the UK when it comes to dealing with waste, there is a case of a reactor buried in a field, and mysterious drums buried 100ft+ under Heathrow airport, discovered by accident in I think October 1994, using the excuse that a tunnel they was building collasped, but oddly paid the workers involved several $k to keep their mouths shut to the media. (I have a tendancy to encourage people to tell me interesting stories.. plus having worked with classified government files, I got to see an awful lot that worried me. (I only mention here stuff that is declassified, though it doesn't mean its easy to find!))
>
> Thats why my next home is going to be of a bunker design with button up potentional just to be on the safe side
>
>
> And the new site for the Olympics is opening a can of worms in that area:
>
> http://www.notjustlondon.com/page24.htm
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/art ... ture.shtml
>
> http://www.gamesmonitor.org.uk/node/406
>
> > A new document reveals a second case of radioactive waste dumped in 1953
> > in a former landfill site within the Park.
> >
> > as well as a small experimental nuclear reactor run by Queen Mary’s College
>
>
> I wouldn't be surpised if some items coming from Russia might well be from areas we wouldn't be entirely happy about people collecting stuff from, eg;
>
> http://www.bellona.org/english_import_a ... ning/33607
>
>
> For those interested, a more PR friendly version of how we are supposed to do it;
>
> http://www.ingenia.org.uk/ingenia/artic ... ?Index=140

[Ian_B]

Is there a way to tell if the oil is contaminated with PCBs or should I just treat all possible sources as if they are contaminated?

Also if possible I would appreciate if you could advise me on proper handling & disposal procedures for PCB tainted oil, if not I can always ask one of the professors at my college when I get back.

Much thanks,
~Ian

Carl Willis wrote:
> Ian,
>
> EBay is a complete toss-up. The most routinely encountered serious contaminant would probably be PCBs in electrical oils (capacitors, transformers, high-voltage tanks). They can break down readily into carcinogenic dioxins. Vacuum pump oil can be full of nasty surprises and should always be changed first thing upon receiving the pump. Radioactive contamination is probably very uncommon because of protocols to eliminate it from the waste stream of facilities where it arises. If you get something seriously radioactive in surplus, you're a lucky guy!
>
> -Carl

[Carl Willis]

There are do-it-yourself test kits for PCBs. There are also commercial labs where you send a sample and they run it through a gas chromatograph for a modest fee. These methods require that the oil be accessible. PCBs are characterized by a chlorine substituent, so you could also perform prompt gamma neutron activation analysis with a fusor and look for the 6.11 MeV gamma ray corresponding to the presence of chlorine. Many pieces of equipment are actually marked "Contains PCBs".

PCBs are just fine, provided they don't overheat. PCB equipment in good condition is nothing to go crazy about; you could take a bath in it. The problem (basically, just a nasty, lingering, yet still very untimely death due to metastatic cancer) only crops up if the oil is burned or has been subjected to sparking or high temperatures. No heat, no worry, brah!

-Carl

[JohnCuthbert]

Re
"PCBs are just fine, provided they don't overheat. PCB equipment in good condition is nothing to go crazy about; you could take a bath in it. The problem (basically, just a nasty, lingering, yet still very untimely death due to metastatic cancer) only crops up if the oil is burned or has been subjected to sparking or high temperatures. No heat, no worry, brah!"

No, sorry, at least some of the 209 isomers of PCBs are nasty in their own right. They are hepatotoxic and carcinogenic.
There isn't much risk from kit that's in good condition for the simple reason that you are outside the case and the PCB is inside it. With second hand gear that's not something you can rely on.
Burning the stuff gives rise to a whole bunch of other nasties too.

[Ian_B]

heres another question; has anyone actually received any hazardously radioactive or contaminated pieces of equipment while acquiring parts for your fusor?

[Carl Willis]

My last post included some irony and I hope will not be taken too literally (don't "take a bath" in transformer oil). John has taken a more serious perspective that is important to note.

I do want to convey the point that PCBs are not a cause for wholesale alarm, however. This is not because they are particularly friendly chemicals, but because they are ubiquitous and CAN be handled relatively safely. They are probably in most electrical and electronic equipment made before 1970, whether it be transformer insulation, potting compounds, PVC wire insulation, and oil-insulated equipment. They are also in railroad ties, telephone poles, and other preserved wood from this vintage. One could spend all his waking hours trying to avoid PCBs, and still not be successful. The real exposure problems and health detriments come from burning these items. If you find something on your shelves that might have PCBs in it, do not throw a fit. Just treat it (and the planet) with respect.

-Carl

[Ian_B]

well stated

[Chris Trent]

I'm not aware of anyone here receiving anything hazardous.

I for one have only received one item that was contaminated with any radioactive substance whatsoever, and that was the cover for a used Geiger probe. By "contaminated" I mean the count went up a few clicks per minute when I put the cover over the alpha window. (Probably why they got rid of it in the first place.) Nothing hazardous by any stretch and a rather neat novelty.

Seriously though. If you're worried about accidentally getting something radioactive then just keep a Geiger counter around and check out whatever you get. It'll go nuts long before you've had anything near dangerous exposure.

[Ian_B]

Thanks for the advice, I've started another thread asking for advice on what kind of Geiger counter to get.

Much thanks
~Ian

[JohnCuthbert]

Like the PCBs, radiation is ubiquitous- there's nowhere wher you could escape it. However that's a poor argument for avoiding increasing your exposure.
Wiki's not the ultimate authority on such matters but you might want to read what they say about the PCBs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polychlorinated_biphenyls

If you have some bit of kit leaking PCBs then, unless you happen to have the proper facilities to decontaminate it, the best bet is to dispose of it properly.
It's not something to panic about but it's not something to have lying about the house if you can help it.