Fusor Forums

Greg,
They say on their website that one should expect to receive an e-mail from them confirming registration within 2 hours, or at the latest the next morning.

I registered on the 22nd, also no word from them yet.

Hmmmm...

Jon Rosenstiel

When you buy gas, the majority of what you pay for is the bottle. I once bought a lecture bottle of 99.9% purity N2 for $100, and there's no way the 50L of N2 was worth more than a few dollars. I bet the bottle itself is about $100, and the D2 itself is probably on the order of 20-50 bucks.

indeed, most of the cost is likely the bottle. i used to fill some large O2 and acetyline bottles for about $20 each, but the initial investment was substantially larger.

Q

I e-mailed Matheson to find out why no response, their answer was that they don't ship to residential addresses. I guess they don't want to jack around with the little guy with his (or her) little order.

Jon Rosenstiel

Hi Jon,

My account uses my residential address for billing and my friendly pseudo-employer's address for shipping. You don't have to use Matheson's delivery service if you can pick up your own cylinders from their local depot. I think you should just call the local office and try to set up an account. The online thing was pretty much a dead end for me also.

-Carl

This is why I tend to order from my local welder supply shops.

Might cost a bit more but it is an over the counter sale for cash much like buying a pack of bacon. They even stock most gas fittings and adapters to wierd valve heads. I live in a large city though and that makes it a bit easier.

Richard Hull

Pfft! I have an FBN form for Greg Labs on file with the county which lists my home address. This, I would think, should make it a "business" address for all intents and purposes, even though people live there. It's rather unprofessional of MTG, in my opinion, to simply ignore the registration request without volunteering an explanation. The polite thing to do would be, at least, to fire off a form letter explaining that they would rather not deal with individuals. It's not as if it would take a lot of effort on their part!
Once I have a more immediate need for deuterium, I shall try contacting them directly...

Greg,
The replies I got to my inquiries were very curt. No salutation, no complimentary closing, no signature. I definitely got the cold shoulder treatment.

Jon Rosenstiel

A lot of people are scared of dealing with individual hobbyists and mad scientists working in their garages, not even to mention nuclear fusion hobbyists. In the chemical, gases, and materials industries it's all the same. It's been this way forever all the way back to Newton and the other alchemists working at night for fear they would be called out for witcherey. The public is afraid of what it doesn't understand and it definitely doesn't understand science.

I have heard it's a lot easier to order as a company.

What other applications does deuterium gas have?

Todd Massure

Deuterium spectro lamps are a common public use for their UV spectrum. Beyond this and a few other minor and esoteric scientific chores, there is no use for Deuterium gas. It is far too expensive to casually design into an industrial process. besides, it is just hydrogen unless you are talking nuclear stuff.

Richard Hull

So I guess if anyone at the gas supplier is paranoid enough to get nosey...I'm in the lamp business.

It's funny. If you've ordered other gases it's not a big deal. They're not asking from a paranoid perspective. D2 is just an unusual gas for these guys so they're like "Huh, what'r ya using that for?" Usually if you get into details about metabolic tracers, proteins, NMR, cancer treatments/cures, they'll be like ok whatever and get sidetracked. I've heard d2 lamps and lasers work too.

Again, the only time I had a real issue was with one specific SPECTRA GASES rep. All the other vendors were pretty cool. Praxair had some non-proliferation paperwork but it was no biggie.

DON'T ship to an apartment (it's HAZMAT and probably against the rules)
DON'T have a last name that sounds foreign.
DON'T be sketchy, answer the phone, call them, etc.
DO talk intelligently and articulately.
DO work with good, honest, reliable, and reasonable people such as
Advanced Specialty Gases.

One vendor I don't see mentioned:

I bought my 50L cylinder of 99.8 D2 from Cambridge Isotopes ( www.isotopes.com ) a few years ago. (It's still a virgin cylinder if anyone wants it.) They are in Andover, MA. Very friendly service. I just checked the price and it's $94 plus the cylinder at $175.

I was able to get my residential address checked out by Matheson Tri-Gas, even though it took about a week for them to confirm the registration.

Refill: $130/100L (99.7% CP)
Rental for size 4 cylinder: $0.51/day

Should I just bite the bullet and buy the cylinder outright?

Raymond J.

I had no choice. The cylinder was sold as part of the deal and allowed NO refills. There are as many gas deals out there as anyone can imagine. I would never rent a cylinder, ever. I have seven cylinders of various gases at home and own all the cylinders. Only the D2 cylinder is un-refillable.

Richard Hull

I got my kilo of D2O ( the D is 99%) from a co. called CK gases ltd. for £ 173. The company is american, so you should be able to track it down. The price should be ~$200 - 300. I got mine through a co. that I used to work for, in case they had doubts about supplying a private address. My current idea is to electrolyse it in a small cell, made of Cu pipe, calculating the Coulombs to get an overpressure of ~1bar after flushing out air, then try diffusion thru a heated thin Fe or Ni tube. This should keep out water, and other things that are not D2.

Tony Webb

Tony - there are Pallidium coated ceramic tubes on the market for just such purpose.
Also if you drop a small piece ( read tiny ) of Sodium or Calcium into the D2 - you will get all the gas you need.

John Thanks for the info on 'diffusion tubes' I'll have to start looking on eBay [i'm a total newbie on internet matters]. Do the Pd coated tubes work at room temp?? All this is a bit premature, as i haven't yet put together a fusor, but I thought I'd get the D2O while it's still available.
Another way would be to add some P2O5 to acidify rthe D2O without adding any H, then use Mg, or similar metal for the D2 generation. all these will produce 'wet' D2, but I expect mol sieve will fix that

Tony Webb

Remember, any hydroxides formed in your efforts will be deuteroxides and you will lock up deuterium in the new compound as well release some as gas.

Electrolysis is about the only way to warrant getting the use of all the deuterium in the D2O. All is till wet D2, of course. Drying it will also lock up D2O in the drying agent, but it can be reclaimed.

Richard Hull