Update on deuterium prices...anything better out there?

For posts specifically relating to fusor design, construction, and operation.
User avatar
Brian McDermott
Posts: 682
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 10:28 pm
Real name:

Re: Update on deuterium prices...anything better out there?

Post by Brian McDermott » Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:26 pm

I still have my July 2004 invoice from ASG, and I ordered 99.7% Deuterium, which is CP grade. I still cannot for the life of me figure out why it suddenly got so expensive. Maybe CP grade is out of stock, and they mistook Carl's request for that and instead quoted him on the high purity stuff that they did have.

Don't try Spectra Gases as they now have you sign some rediculous "Nuclear Non-Proliferation" sheet essentially stating that you will not be making an atomic bomb with this stuff. It is a silly company policy that no law says is required.

Edward Miller
Posts: 266
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2003 8:50 am
Real name: Edward Miller
Contact:

Re: Update on deuterium prices...anything better out there?

Post by Edward Miller » Sat Jun 10, 2006 4:50 pm

Here are some quotes from my inquiry with the Spectra Gases sales rep.

"I will also need to know your intended application for this product since deuterium and deuterated products are regulated by the government should we have the product available."

"Thank you for the application summary. Deuterium regulations have been getting strictly enforced since the creation of the Homeland security Dept of government. Since it is "nuclear proliferation" material we are taking this very seriously, not to mention there is personal civil penalty for anyone who is involved in selling this product without proper government approvals."

Oh it gets worse, keep reading from the next email....
"This applies to any and all deuterated products. You can see all of the regulations by using the following link to the Code of Federal Regulations part 110
http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-colle ... r/part110/
It really applies to certain activities and uses and if you are exporting outside of the country. The NRC sets very precise amounts of each type of product that you can ship in a single shipment as well as annually."

And finally from the last email to which realized this company had totally lost it...

"The government restricts what you can do with Deuterium even in the
united states. If you are doing things like tritium production and it
is not under a DOE contract or with permission and license to do so you can be in trouble. Since I did not know if you are exporting the
deuterium or not I must ask the regulatory questions and be sure that
you understand the government position as it related to deuterated
products."

I searched on the Spetra Gases sales person's name and found a fire and brimstone letter written to the FDA about GMO foods. I never did hear back from them. Praxair however did fax me a non-proliferation form but again it was cheaper through ASG.

User avatar
Carl Willis
Posts: 2841
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2001 11:33 pm
Real name: Carl Willis
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA
Contact:

Re: Update on deuterium prices...anything better out there?

Post by Carl Willis » Sun Jun 11, 2006 6:41 am

Well, here's an update:

Why did ASG's quote look so high?

>I apologize as I priced your request for some reason as Xenon >instead of
>Deuterium.
>
>You are correct and for that use a price of $250.00 for the 50 Liters.
>
>Refills would be $225.00

Not bad at all. (Their price for xenon looks reasonable too, should I ever need it.)

Now onto the matter of Spectra Gases. Indeed as Edmo observed, they must fashion themselves as some kind of Homeland Security apparatchiks these days:

>I will need to know what you are using this gas for (specific
>research application) since D2 is regulated by the government.

Their price on D2 is $275 with the cylinder, and refills are $185. So their gas is significantly cheaper than ASG's, but their cylinder is more expensive. Obviously, a consideration of this tradeoff is a moot point if Spectra is going to make the customer's specific application a matter of their interest and their records as a condition of sale. I wrote back asking the rep to cite the law that is the basis of her broad request. Other than the shipping regs for compressed gases and the export regs, I'm not aware of anything. Their open-ended demand to know what I'm doing is very different from simply asking for an assurance that I will not be exporting their product. Intrusive, unjustified, and excessively broad demands like these from Spectra indicate appeasement of the "fear science" culture, and unfortunately for both of us it means I cannot consider giving them my business until things change. This is especially unfortunate since I bought deuterium from Spectra three or four years ago and was treated like an adult human being back then.

On the other hand, I'm hesitant to construe the rep's rant to the FDA as firm evidence of personal characteristics that should concern her customers. Yes, she does mention "sin" and "crimes against nature" in there, but moves on to make specific rational arguments. You know, sometimes you need to embellish your argument with Bible-thumping Dobson-esque rhetoric in order to be given one iota of credence in our present government. (Why do you think our Dear Leader pledged $50B to fight AIDS in Africa? Because he's a charitable guy with a keen sense of what's best for the world? Um, hardly--it's because Bono thumped a Bible at Jesse Helms back in '01. True story.)

-Carl
Carl Willis
http://carlwillis.wordpress.com/
TEL: +1-505-412-3277

User avatar
Brian McDermott
Posts: 682
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 10:28 pm
Real name:

Re: Update on deuterium prices...anything better out there?

Post by Brian McDermott » Sun Jun 11, 2006 12:15 pm

The only place I could find the word "Deuterium" in CFR 110 was with regards to export, not domestic use.

Andrew Seltzman
Posts: 747
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 1:02 am
Real name: Andrew Seltzman
Contact:

Re: Update on deuterium prices...anything better out there?

Post by Andrew Seltzman » Sun Jun 11, 2006 6:36 pm

Heavy water (99.9%) is still at $55 per 100g from wilmad labglass.
http://www.wilmad-labglass.com/group/2147

Andrew Seltzman
www.rtftechnologies.org
Andrew Seltzman
www.rtftechnologies.org

Edward Miller
Posts: 266
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2003 8:50 am
Real name: Edward Miller
Contact:

Re: Update on deuterium prices...anything better out there?

Post by Edward Miller » Sun Jun 11, 2006 9:12 pm

What concerned me was that here you have a sales person with incomplete facts, that's scared of science to begin with, and that's quick to contact the government for a solution. I know I'm not doing anything wrong, but I don't really want to sit in a room explaining that to suits because some sales lady has lost her mind. Fear is what's driving this war and it's eroding away our liberties and freedoms.

User avatar
Carl Willis
Posts: 2841
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2001 11:33 pm
Real name: Carl Willis
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA
Contact:

Last word on deuterium prices, 6/22/06

Post by Carl Willis » Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:04 pm

Well, I ended up getting the best deal--by far--from Matheson. All who bought deuterium recently, read this and WEEP:

> Here is your quote as requested;
>
> Deuterium CP 99.7% 1.77cf 50L
>
> Part#G1211276
>
> $157.00 2-3 WEEKS LEAD TIME

Heck, I won't even pay shipping on this because I can go pick it up on arrival at my local Matheson distributor. The bottle is refillable by Matheson. The one minor downside is that Matheson cannot supply the lecture bottle with the CGA-350 flammable gas fitting, only the CGA-170 LB fitting. Should be easy to get an adapter. I did have to fill out a credit app and set up an account with them, but now that's done, it should be easy to get not only deuterium but whatever other specialty gases I might conceivably need.

-Carl
Carl Willis
http://carlwillis.wordpress.com/
TEL: +1-505-412-3277

Jon Rosenstiel
Posts: 1391
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2001 5:30 am
Real name: Jon Rosenstiel
Location: Southern California

Re: Last word on deuterium prices, 6/22/06

Post by Jon Rosenstiel » Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:12 pm

Carl,

Thanks for this info. I believe I'll order a 50L bottle from Matheson.... just in case.

Jon Rosenstiel

User avatar
Richard Hull
Moderator
Posts: 12172
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 1:44 pm
Real name: Richard Hull

Re: Last word on deuterium prices, 6/22/06

Post by Richard Hull » Fri Jun 23, 2006 1:58 pm

That was a very good price, indeed.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

Greg Courville
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:38 am
Real name:
Contact:

Re: Last word on deuterium prices, 6/22/06

Post by Greg Courville » Sun Jun 25, 2006 5:37 pm

$157.00 for the 50-l cylinder is exciting news, but even more so is the fact that, according to their catalog, they also offer a 20-l cylinder. Based on the pricing for the 50-l cylinder, I expect the price for the 20-l size might be well under $100, which is exciting for those of us with little cash.
I live only about 30 miles from the Newark, CA distribution center, so Matheson Tri-Gas is looking like a very attractive option. I attempted to register to use their online store on June 12th, but as of today my registration has yet to be activated (which apparently must be done manually on their end)...

Post Reply