Deuterium purchase recomendations?

[kbonin]

Hello!

I’m still worried about having Deuterium added to the perpetually growing list of materials us amateurs are allowed to purchase, so even though most of my own Fusor is on hold and stacked up in boxes until later in the year, I want to go ahead and get the Deuterium now. I gave up high power rocketry for the growing red tape, and I don’t want to deal with licensing here…

I currently live in Corvallis, Oregon and don’t have any local suppliers, so I’ll be trying mail order (unless anyone has any caveats about ordering / shipping into Oregon?)

Richard posted 6/3 that Matheson was selling at $329+20 for 50L bottle with a CGA 170 valve. Brian posted 7/6 that Advanced Specialty Gasses quoted $200 for lecture bottle. Richard has also posted that all fusion to date used “Massey, BOC, or Spectra-gas product.”

Questions:

Any reason not to order from ASG ?

I don’t see online ordering, so I have to email or call someone, which means I need to be prepared for unexpected questions. Any suggestions, recommendations, scripts, lists of things ‘to say’ or ‘not to say’? Never having done this before, I don't want to inadvertently say something that causes problems or raises red flags of any kind…

Any recommended dealers / suppliers / contact people?

CGA 170 the best fitting? (I haven’t even started on gas handling; I’ve spent most of my time on spectrometry and vacuum so far…)

Thanks for any help!

Side note - I will get the CD project out this year, sorry that’s taking so long. Wife, 3 kids, and job doesn’t leave a tremendous amount of time, and school expenses (for kids AND wife) keeps eating my budget.

[Brian McDermott]

I sent them (ASG) an email inquiry back in January for 30L of deuterium and said the price of $200 (total, including shipping) I had suggested was fair enough. They told me that all I had to do was send in a Faxed form describing the item and credit card info/signature. You probably want to notify them of your interest to purchase via phone or email prior to faxing in your form. Specify the cylinder size (Lecture bottle), quantity of gas (in liters) and valve fitting (CGA 170) that you desire when talking to any of the Deuteium suppliers. They will treat it as a standard order and will raise no red flags. Just don't use the "F" word (fusion) or the "N" word (nuclear).

[davidtrimmell]

Kerry, have you tried the suppliers down here in Eugene? I would think they would at least be able to order it for you saving on some of the hazmat shipping charges. Let us know where you end up going for it.

Regards,

David Trimmell

[kbonin]

I haven't looked down in Eugene, are there any suppliers that carry it there that I should be checking?

I prefer the mail order options, the possible lack of direct human contact makes it less likely that I'll say anything stupid.

As for hazmat charges, I hadn't seen anything significant mentioned for shipping charges other than $20, but I hadn't thought that one through - how is a flammable gas lecture bottle normally shipped?

[Richard Hull]

Latest info!!!

I got an e-mail at home from someone, I imagine from here but can't remember just now and they said that they just attempted to order gas from Spectra and they were told that they would have to sign some sort of nuclear non-proliferation agreement!!!!! Sounds dopey.

I assume this is not a leg pull, but just another of the ever changing regs either goevernment or corporate based, probably entirely, upon Iran's attempt to get a lot of heavy water. I sort of expected this sooner or later.

Hazmat fees are passed right on to me here when I order from my local wled gas supplier and is listed as a line item on the bill. You can't escape them.

The bottle is backed in a very small cardboard box with a little bubble wrap around it and sent via normal UPS, but with a hazmat label. NOthing special at all.

Richard Hull

[3l]

Hi Guys:

I just talked to my spook buddies.
It is not a proliferation agreement per se but a restricted material agreement. It simply states that you must list the use and details ,the end user (If a business) , have a valid address (no po boxes) and be an American citizen (birth certificate copy) . I ran into this little gem when I tried to ship BF3 tubes by UPS. You cannot resale this item with out the original manufacteur's paperwork..... it is yours. The item being surplus had no paperwork ,so I simply had the guy pick it up.
On deuterium, Airco Welding Supply will let you pick it up at their sales store with no paper work , just a check .

Hi Kerry:

If you need help on the production side, let me know.
I just set up a cd disc facilty to produce nim books on cdrom.
I am now multi burner producer.
I would be happy to help, just give the word.

Happy Fusoring!
Larrry Leins
Fusor Tech

[Brian McDermott]

ASG just quoted me for the el-cheapo price of $245 for 50L plus shipping. It carries a 2-3 day lead time. I'm going to fax in my order tomorrow.

[Richard Hull]

As I thought.................. it is not an absolute requirement across the board, but most likely a "cover your ass" document for some companies heading off issues with security concerns. If it was federally mandated, YOU WOULD HAVE TO SIGN! And... sign in blood.

Richard Hull

[kbonin]

I wonder how specific the "use" specification would have to be, would "science fair experiment" work?

I just emailed ASG for a real quote, we'll see how it goes...

On the CD project, I've finally resumed real work, trying for 30 mins a day minimum. ( Don't have much else to do until I lay out some serious green for a 3-in-one or some similar machine tool, been delaying that purchase for too many years. ) I'm moving the archive tools from using an ad-hoc database to a real (free, Java) embedded SQL database so I can do things far more efficiently, only added a few hundred k to the codebase, which isn't a problem for a CD based app. I'll post some updates to the original thread soon...

[Brian McDermott]

I faxed my Deuterium order in to ASG yesterday and received an email confirmation. I'll report back on shipping costs and delivery times when I receive the bottle and the final invoice. The total cost so far was $245.

[AnGuy]

What are some of the other uses for Deuterium? I know its used in Thyratrons, and lamps or gas lasers. I can't imagine it be used for welding other non-high tech devices.

[3l]

Hi AG:

It is used in chemistry and biology all the time as a tracer element. Physical chemistry research demands it.
Pharmacy research uses deuterium to determine metabolic path ways in plants and animals by using deuterium enriched
feedstocks. We lowly student workers gathered animal poo disolved it in a carrier liquid and used a mass spectro to see which molecules did what with the deuterium.
Organic reactions of new drugs use NMR readings to check the efficiency of new synthesis methods by deuterium tagged reactants. By checking the nondesirable waste for deuterium you can get a pretty good idea how effective the reaction was.

Happy Fusoring!
Larry Leins
Fusor Tech