NEW Fusor V build under way.

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Richard Hull
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Richard Hull »

Yes, bring your rem ball, should you come. I have a fully functional Eberline, dual needle rem ball system (PNR-?), but it has never been calibrated. I prefer my PNC-1 which has.

Fusor V is also a bit of a "leaker", but it, (as fusor IV), has done 1.3 mega n/s sec at my power supply limit of 43kv, showing that mild leaks are of no real impediment in an active system. I do note that fusor V with the turbo is far easier to control at this point. We will see how it does with deuterium instead of air. I am still fiddling with the build. In the end, I fear my max voltage will limit me, but I do have the 750lb, 65kv, 60 ma, DC negative output supply, ready to run, 2 foot cube, x-ray system should I venture, (read hazard), to use it.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Richard Hull »

I got back to the job on fusor V today as I was called to pick up the $100.00 worth of HDPE that I had custom cut for me by my usual plastics supplier here in town. I constructed and tested the new moderator for my 3He tube. It works far better than I thought. It seems I am getting about a 30% increase in background counts with the horizontal aspect of the detector relative to outer space. My old average count was around 8 counts per minute. The new count is on the order of 12-13 cpm. My guess is... 1. The HDPE is better than the old water moderator..... 2. The horizontal aspect being parallel to the horizon is intercepting more cosmic starred particles. My old system was normal to the horizon. It is important to note that in the moderator, background detection is almost never a true neutron. my tube has a rather lengthy 19.3-inches sensitive length!

Note: Regarding a cosmic ray telescope; this horizontal display of long detection tubes is the aspect chosen for all cosmic ray "telescopes". Groups of detectors are placed in a gatling gun circular fashion parallel to the ground. Using coincidence detection, the cosmics can give away their directional radiant.

I have stored the old moderator tank that served so well these many long years. The HDPE assembly can be altered rather easily like so many Lego blocks, as needed.

In the attached photos you see that I have mounted my precision sapphire leak for gas line flow control. The gas lines are next on the agenda. Once they are up and tested, I can put this puppy through its fusion paces.

Richard Hull
Attachments
FusorV 7.14 (11).JPG
FusorV 7.14 (1).JPG
FusorV 7.14 (2).JPG
FusorV 7.14 (4).JPG
FusorV 7.14 (8).JPG
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Richard Hull
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Richard Hull »

Fusor V has now been, ostensibly, completed! Minor details need attention, but it is up and running. The first run with D2 was dismal at 6 microns. I did fusion, but pitiably. The second run, today much better as noted in the photos. I will load the walls over the next couple of days and report on the effort. The turbo and the precision leak really make the operation a snap. I am having re-learn the balance between pinching off the turbo and no blowing off too much gas too fast with the leak, but I am definitely getting my "sea legs" for this new ship of the line.

Rather than give neutrons/sec isotropic based on my old system, I will merely state the neutron detector cpm values. In this manner I can report precisely the relative improvement day to day. On this day the maximium count rate was 659 cpm

I attach three photos.

Richard Hull
Attachments
FusorV 7.16 anno.jpg
FusorV 7.16 anno2.jpg
FusorV 7.16 anno3.jpg
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Richard Hull
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Richard Hull »

The second day of major running was a good bit better. The maximum count was 2113 cpm. 5.6 microns, 35kv @ 14ma. The walls are loading as we see since I can up the voltage a bit. this is a 220% increase over yesterday. Still abysmal by old standards, but all numbers remain this way as the norm, at first. It typically might take 6-7 days to bring the system up.

I do worry that 33% of the new counter's moderator is blocked by the 2 inch thick solid steel flanges. These thick diagonally presented flanges will no doubt attenuate the counts over the older vertical moderator where the flanges were normal to the detector moderator's axis. Once I get some decent cpm readings I will attempt to calibrate to a limited degree.

Nice not to have to worry about arcing.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Mark Rowley »

Great to hear the excellent news with your new system. Your mention of loading the walls brings up a couple questions. How long does the load typically last in a sufficiently “loaded” system? And if the chamber is opened for some type of service, does the inrush of regular air destroy the loading?

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Richard Hull
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Richard Hull »

From my operational experience, it takes about 7 separate days to load a 6" sphere for operation at 12-20 microns and work it at around 40+KV and 15ma to get about 1.3 millions n/s isotropic. There are two issues related to the loss of loading in my system. First the fusor is leaky and when turned off and locked down it leaks a a rate of about 0.1 micron every 1.5 seconds or or 15 seconds per micron. (capacitive gauge)
Second once loaded, I have never opened the system to air as it, over time, will do this on its own. I can load the system and it will respond well after a week of non-use. However, I tend to build it up for a show run and then when the show is over, I might not run the system for 4-5 months. This places me back at square-one for a reload.

Make of the above what you will. After running my fusor for 16 years I do not feel the need to run it often anymore. In an emergency I can give a decent showing with just 3 days of conditioning. and have the 3He counter clicking away to prove I am doing fusion. If, however, I want to activate in a serious manner, that would take 6-8 days to really do well to a significant degree. (exceed the mega mark handily)

The lab is unheated and not air conditioned. Today, the outside temperature was 96 degrees F. I toiled and slaved over a hot fusor for 2 hours with the lab temperature at 93 degrees. I had two large box fans playing on me and the fusor. The fusor shell temperature at shut down was 101 degrees C.!! It could boil water.... If you note in the photos, I have a K type digital temperature gauge as a readout of shell temperature.

Richard Hull
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PID control.jpg
PID control.jpg (87.68 KiB) Viewed 7026 times
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Dennis P Brown
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Dennis P Brown »

I understand both the slow leakage issue and especially the high temps - both for the fusor body and the room!

As I meantion on more than one occasion - while building my reserach facility I really cooked inside it. So glad I included insulation and AC (still wondering if the unit will heat the place enough in deep winter.)

Still, running that fusor hot and in a 96F basement is really dedication! I impressed - even in my yonger days, that would have been unlikely for me - I'd would've far preferred a steam room ;) .

By the way - your continued progress in building mostly highly successful fusors - doesn't that conflict with one of your added statements below your posts?
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Richard Hull
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Richard Hull »

Today the fusor V did a good bit better and I activated silver.

Still far below any decent level to crow about. The best run after 3 hours of constant on time was: 9.3 microns of D2, 32.5 kV @14.4 ma, showing 6601 cpm. The activation proved to be no more than 40% above background, but activation, nonetheless. I figure, at best, maybe 100k n/s iso. Chamber reached 215 deg. C. Due to a box fan on the system, it seems to never get any higher in temp. Another nearly 200% increase over yesterday.

We had a monthly HEAS meeting around my working this fusor run. Seven local HEAS members showed up to bask in the 98 deg F. heat sitting in the shade of my side yard from 12 noon until 3 PM and then into the steaming lab for a fusor run. Three die-hards hung in there until 5:30. I shut it all down at 6:00

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Richard Hull
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Richard Hull »

The third day of high value tests went on for a total of 3 hours, again. I am now working at almost 11.6 microns of pressure. Improvement is steady but tedious in the 97 deg. F. lab.

The first runs were 2 hours long from 2PM to 4 PM and the best run was 9.8 microns, 37 kV @ 13.8 ma, yielding 15,067 cpm. activated silver easily. I shut down to go inside for the air conditioning.

I came back out at 6 PM for more runs. I did much better in the 12 data runs. The best of the second set was 10.4 microns, 39 kV, @18ma yielding 28,486 CPM!! 300% increase over yesterday's numbers
I pushed in more gas to 11.6 microns, 35 kV @ 16 ma, yielding 18,705 CPM. In spite of more gas, it is the voltage that pushes fusion.

Gas is important, but the fusor is just not ready for this much gas yet. I imagine tomorrow will be a different story.

I will note that fusor V operation with the turbo and especially the precision sapphire leak, is smooth, well controlled and a snap compared to fusor IV

Update 7/21: best run 11.4 microns, 36.3 kV @15.5 ma, yielded 18,249 cpm......

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Richard Hull »

Wednesday's numbers are no better. The chamber reached 133 deg. c. today. Best run: 12 microns, 41 kV, 13.2 ma, 15,683CPM.

I feel the chamber needs some sort of cooling system, but more to the point, I think most of the problem is operational issues. I have never run a turbo in a fusion situation. I worry that I am throttling the turbo line to the fusor chamber either too much or too little. I must now stop trying for numbers and work on finding a sweet operational spot. Most importantly, the image in the camera looks nothing like that on the old fusor IV. No rays at all, no central glow or star. The window may have significant crud on it due to my driving hard. There are issues, but thank goodness no arcing.

I have had, in the distant past an arc on 3 occasions since 2004 leap from the top of the insulator to the conflat cap screws when the chamber voltage rose above 43 kV. I feel I have now solved that issue. In the attached images you see that I have packed high voltage silicone putty over the flange cap screws and the flange edges. additionally, I have completely packed the high radius cap at the top of the insulator with the silicone putty to up under the toroid. The toroid can now work at distributing the E-field to spread it out smoothly.

Richard Hull
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7.21 (1).JPG
7.21 (4).JPG
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Bob Reite »

I'm able to go to 60 KV on my system, once I put a one inch ball for the HV terminal with no corona or arcing. But the big difference in my setup is that the chamber sits on a piece of sheet metal with a hole just big enough for the ceramic to go through. So the grounded surface that the HV sees is perfectly flat with no sharp points. The HV silicon or corona dope is what I've done in the past to cure HV woes.
The more reactive the materials, the more spectacular the failures.
The testing isn't over until the prototype is destroyed.
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Mark Rowley »

Richard
I think you’re right about the throttling issue.

My Varian HS2 Diff Pump was major overkill for my cross fusor and is still overkill for my larger new fusor. In order to get good numbers I have to keep the D2 flow rate pretty high. Conserving D2 by keeping the diff throttled way back has only served to give me dismal numbers. I think you told me once about Carl suggesting to really turn on the gas for a good increase in neutrons. Perhaps it’s something similar.

Mark Rowley
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Richard Hull
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Richard Hull »

I tend to agree about the flow rate. I, for a fact, did follow Carl's advice on fusor IV and my operation and numbers did go up. The turbo is just too damned efficient. In a way, this is a great time to experiment with operation again. I thought I knew it all. Just shows we must never stop learning or get over confident when presented with new challenges.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Richard Hull
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Richard Hull »

Operation may be solved!! I started another group of runs today and only mildly pinched off the chamber from the turbo line. I had been really squeezing off the turbo to conserve gas. I got fairly nice improved results after only three runs...9 Microns, 39 kV, 16.8 ma, 18,874 cpm. The TC gauge on the mechanical line was up to 25 microns! As the chamber heated the results drooped.

Frustrated, I threw caution to the winds. I opened the chamber valve half way open!! (no difference in pressure from wide open) I found amazing results! Instantly stable operation occurred to higher pressures and higher numbers! The TC gauge on the mechanical line soared to a stable 50 microns....My poor lost D2! the results of four great runs.

12.6 microns, 40.3 kV, -16ma, 24,074 CPM
12.9, - 40.1, -16.5, 25,101
13.2, - 39.6, -17.6, 26,125
13.4, - 41.7, -15.5, 30,813

I am much buoyed by this in spite of this modus being a gas gobbler.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Bob Reite »

Maybe your old posts got lost in the crash, but I remember with Fusor IV that you got much better results when you were not so stingy with the D2
The more reactive the materials, the more spectacular the failures.
The testing isn't over until the prototype is destroyed.
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Mark Rowley »

It’s great to see Fusor V crankin’ out the neuts!

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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Jon Rosenstiel »

I really like your new setup, Richard. You have a lot more patience than I as you take the time to apply a nice coat of paint and make everything pretty.

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Richard Hull
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Richard Hull »

As you know, I have a lot of folks troop through here and pretty really counts even when the number aren't what I would like. Although now I am instantly doing fusion again and can hit 25K CPM within 10 minutes of starting the fore pump!

Odd, today I did do a bit of touch-up paint work as during the construction phase I did scratch or mess up a number of small spots on the table, platform and even the walls! These needed a dab here and there.

I am doing much better provided I work fast before the chamber hits 130 deg C. Like at 65 deg C today I did ok. I activated indium at 11.3 microns of D2, 42 Kv, 13ma, 36,237 cpm on the 3He counter.
At 42 kV in the past, I would be shaking in my boots in fear of the insulator breaking down in air. That HV silicone putty is great! Plus the torodial field control really helps.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Richard Hull
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Richard Hull »

Latest best run. Activated indium and silver. 14 microns, 42kv, 14.2 ma, 44,819 cpm. Chamber got up to 80 deg C. My window is intrinsically opaque!! I will have to clean it. I see no rays, no red, no star, only a glowing grid during fusion. I think I have figured out where the crud is coming from and have cleared out the issue.....I hope. Manual scrubbing of the window with heavy cutting alumina polish is a bitch.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Richard Hull
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Richard Hull »

Well, I think I am getting super numbers now of the type that I like a lot and really activating silver very well. (see my GM graphs and info in the neutron-radiation forum).

Here are the latest numbers all are sequential one minute timed runs as I moved the fusor up in power

11 microns... 40 kV ....15ma ....48,105 cpm
11.8.......... 38 ........20 ....... 53,851
12.2 ......... 40 ....... 18 ....... 59,554
12.4 ......... 40 ....... 22.6..... 65,297
12.4 ......... 42 ....... 22 ...... 68,092.....924 watts! Oddly, the chamber never hit 50 deg C. I think it was because I worked fast, got my numbers and shut 'er down.

I'm thinking I have really cooked some of the collected crud out of the reactor now. Onward and upward.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Mark Rowley
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Mark Rowley »

Lookin great Richard!
What’s your rough TIER guesstimate at the 68kcpm number?

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Richard Hull
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Richard Hull »

With fusor IV and the calibrated water moderator detection system, the 68k count would have been 1,300,000 TIER, but this moderator is far more efficient and I would guesstimate around 800,000 TIER. My guesstimate would be on the order of value as a poke in the eye with a sharp stick. Hey, you asked.

The reason is that even my activation based data figured on the old calibrated efforts fall flat. Why? Because I am getting instant counts on the silver with my new system which rival the best I ever did at the mega TIER range due to the loss of short lived activation product numbers in my 10 second dash to the old NIM counter which counted only for a full minute to give a number. Apples and oranges..........

One must be very careful not only in calibration, but in all neutron measurement processes that are claimed to be solidly backed. I can only back the neutron counts in my detector and the counts in the instant activation counter I have just assembled. They are real, but say little about the TIER. I just changed too many processes with fusor V.

The result is another source of calibrated neutron reading is needed. Soon, I hope.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Mark Rowley »

Based on those numbers your 3He tube is just about twice as efficient as a SNM11 boron tube.

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Richard Hull
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Richard Hull »

3He is the best and #1, boron is a close #2. Boron tubes are rarely at even 1 ATM! Most all 3He tubes are at 3 or 4 ATM. I do have a huge 2" diameter BF3 tube that is 24 inches long here that is at 70cm pressure. So make a Boron tube big and you get better counts. A good boron lined tube is #3 but is tough to bias in amateur hands with no neutron source.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Richard Hull »

New record count and activation of short lived Silver activation product to above 6X background 8/12/20

Best run 12 microns, 42kV, 20ma, 78,180 CPM. Thermal heating of chamber still a limiting factor.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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