NEW Fusor V build under way.

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Richard Hull
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NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Richard Hull »

I pulled fusor IV out of retirement and am using it in a new configuration. This will be fusor V for all intents and purposes into the future, I hope. I have it under vacuum. Some small leak issues seem to be solved after 4 hours of pumping and adjustments. I attach images, (as usual, click on image to enlarge). I have not put on the camera or the gas lines with the new gas control leak situation. I will also alter my neutron detection system. There is much left to do...

I am working every day on this

Richard Hull
Attachments
FusorV 7.10 (3).JPG
FusorV 7.10 (2).JPG
FusorV 7.10 (6).JPG
FusorV 7.10 (4).JPG
FusorV 7.10 (8).JPG
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Mark Rowley
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Mark Rowley »

Glad to see it taking shape Richard. Of all people, you should never be without an instantly operational fusor! :)

Mark Rowley
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Richard Hull
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Richard Hull »

Mark, you are correct. I feel the pain of having no fusion of a decent nature since HEAS 2019. Compounding this is the horrid failure of that first iteration coupled with the death of my Turbo controller.

Like the phoenix all are rising from the flames of perdition. The turbo is fixed and fusor IV in new garb, backed by many new planned facilities will hopefully blossom as fusor V.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Cai Arcos
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Cai Arcos »

Richard:

I remember that you calibrated your detectors using bubble dosimeters, and that they couldn't be moved afterwards in order to conserve that calibration.
Are you planning to redo the whole process or do you have something in mind?

As always, a superb effort.
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Richard Hull
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Richard Hull »

I will have to find some form of calibration method, Yes. The neutron numbers are important.

Today I mounted the camera to the system. I am now making the lead shield shroud. X-rays are intense due to position of camera above 18kv.

Some photos

Richard Hull
Attachments
FusorV 7.11.20 Anno.jpg
FusorV 7.11.20 (3).JPG
FusorV 7.11.20 Anno1.jpg
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Bob Reite
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Bob Reite »

I'm still not sure why you can't use your former calibration of the neutron detection system. As long as you have recorded the exact distance the detector was from the center of Fusor IV, you can either place the detector at the same distance or use the inverse square law to calculate what you will measure at a new distance.
The more reactive the materials, the more spectacular the failures.
The testing isn't over until the prototype is destroyed.
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Richard Hull
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Richard Hull »

I am...was...might ditch the water moderator that has served so well since 2002. I used two separate BTI dosimeters two years apart to arrive at my final calibration factor which was 20X the CPM count per minute to equal the total n/s isotropic. Final count of 38,345 cpm on the 3He set up = 20 X 38,345 = 766,900 n/s isotropic.

If I do as I planned, I would purchase a custom cut group of HDPE pieces in a number of varying sizes and make up a far more usable combination neutron 3He moderator and element cooking "oven".
In the end I do have a recently calibrated Eberline neutron counter and with the count rate on a neutron run might convert the mr/hr reading on the instrument to neutron emission isotropic using the key feature that 1 mr/hr of thermalized fast neutrons is typically the result of 7-9 n/cm^2/sec. (I use 8)

From here it is a back figuring issue to derive n/s isotropic emission. I feel I have the skill. Ludlum calibrated the meter 2 years ago. $75.00

Thanks for asking Bob. Ditching to old calibrated neutron moderator system just means more work. the only maintenance needed was to make sure the water level was at the calibration level. 3 month in the summer would take almost 2 quarts of distilled water to put the tank back into calibration level.

It may be like fusor IV....Tear it down....only to come crawling back to the same type spherical system as a result of attempting to follow the 2.75 cross craze. If it ain't broke don't put effort into trying to fix it.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Richard Hull »

Well, another day, another inch-worming towards getting 'er done. Field control toroid on insulator. I had to machine out a huge hole in the center, ruining John Freau's beautiful spun toroid for common Tesla coil work. John is the guy you will see every year at HEAS selling toroids. He spins these beauties on his home machine. John was there at Teslathon #1 and virtually all 30 October events since. I think he missed one year!

I am paranoid now about air or vacuum arcs after blowing up my Turbo controller due to a seventh of eighth arc in the abortive effort earlier this year. Thus, the field control issue on the insulator.

I spent about 4 hours on the pretty lead shield placed about the view port and video camera mount in an effort to save lives. (poor camera, takes it on the chin..., but still in the ring, however, after 16 years)
Look ma...No gloves. I had to cut and wrangle the old lead sheeting bare handed. In the end, I had gray hands and three small cuts. I work with lead a lot casting my own bullets for my 45-70.

Some more pix as I work the system up. First pix a bit fuzzy (old age shakes)

Richard Hull
Attachments
FusorV 7.12 (1).JPG
FusorV 7.12 (2).JPG
FusorV 7.12 (3).JPG
FusorV 7.12 (7).JPG
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Dennis P Brown
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Dennis P Brown »

Impressive work and progress - protecting a turbo's delicate electronics is worth the effort but makes one better appreciate the old and trust worthy diffusion pumps -they take a licking and keep on ticking (old timers reference for the younger crowd); guess you'll be up and running for the meeting come Oct.
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Bob Reite »

Ah so you decided to replace the moderator for the neutron detector with a different type. Yes, in that case it's recalibrate from square one.

I never had a problem with arc overs killing the turbo controller. My two failures both happened while the high voltage was totally off and capacitance all discharged. One while it was idling over night (that was the worst, circuit board totally fried, was cheaper to get a replacement on EBay) The other when it blew the input rectifier on startup, at least that time it was an inexpensive repair.

If I make it to HEAS, i'll bring my REM ball and see what numbers it comes up with.

As I recall, Fusor IV was a bit of a "leaker". How is the progress on that front?
The more reactive the materials, the more spectacular the failures.
The testing isn't over until the prototype is destroyed.
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Richard Hull »

Yes, bring your rem ball, should you come. I have a fully functional Eberline, dual needle rem ball system (PNR-?), but it has never been calibrated. I prefer my PNC-1 which has.

Fusor V is also a bit of a "leaker", but it, (as fusor IV), has done 1.3 mega n/s sec at my power supply limit of 43kv, showing that mild leaks are of no real impediment in an active system. I do note that fusor V with the turbo is far easier to control at this point. We will see how it does with deuterium instead of air. I am still fiddling with the build. In the end, I fear my max voltage will limit me, but I do have the 750lb, 65kv, 60 ma, DC negative output supply, ready to run, 2 foot cube, x-ray system should I venture, (read hazard), to use it.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Richard Hull »

I got back to the job on fusor V today as I was called to pick up the $100.00 worth of HDPE that I had custom cut for me by my usual plastics supplier here in town. I constructed and tested the new moderator for my 3He tube. It works far better than I thought. It seems I am getting about a 30% increase in background counts with the horizontal aspect of the detector relative to outer space. My old average count was around 8 counts per minute. The new count is on the order of 12-13 cpm. My guess is... 1. The HDPE is better than the old water moderator..... 2. The horizontal aspect being parallel to the horizon is intercepting more cosmic starred particles. My old system was normal to the horizon. It is important to note that in the moderator, background detection is almost never a true neutron. my tube has a rather lengthy 19.3-inches sensitive length!

Note: Regarding a cosmic ray telescope; this horizontal display of long detection tubes is the aspect chosen for all cosmic ray "telescopes". Groups of detectors are placed in a gatling gun circular fashion parallel to the ground. Using coincidence detection, the cosmics can give away their directional radiant.

I have stored the old moderator tank that served so well these many long years. The HDPE assembly can be altered rather easily like so many Lego blocks, as needed.

In the attached photos you see that I have mounted my precision sapphire leak for gas line flow control. The gas lines are next on the agenda. Once they are up and tested, I can put this puppy through its fusion paces.

Richard Hull
Attachments
FusorV 7.14 (11).JPG
FusorV 7.14 (1).JPG
FusorV 7.14 (2).JPG
FusorV 7.14 (4).JPG
FusorV 7.14 (8).JPG
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Richard Hull »

Fusor V has now been, ostensibly, completed! Minor details need attention, but it is up and running. The first run with D2 was dismal at 6 microns. I did fusion, but pitiably. The second run, today much better as noted in the photos. I will load the walls over the next couple of days and report on the effort. The turbo and the precision leak really make the operation a snap. I am having re-learn the balance between pinching off the turbo and no blowing off too much gas too fast with the leak, but I am definitely getting my "sea legs" for this new ship of the line.

Rather than give neutrons/sec isotropic based on my old system, I will merely state the neutron detector cpm values. In this manner I can report precisely the relative improvement day to day. On this day the maximium count rate was 659 cpm

I attach three photos.

Richard Hull
Attachments
FusorV 7.16 anno.jpg
FusorV 7.16 anno2.jpg
FusorV 7.16 anno3.jpg
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Richard Hull »

The second day of major running was a good bit better. The maximum count was 2113 cpm. 5.6 microns, 35kv @ 14ma. The walls are loading as we see since I can up the voltage a bit. this is a 220% increase over yesterday. Still abysmal by old standards, but all numbers remain this way as the norm, at first. It typically might take 6-7 days to bring the system up.

I do worry that 33% of the new counter's moderator is blocked by the 2 inch thick solid steel flanges. These thick diagonally presented flanges will no doubt attenuate the counts over the older vertical moderator where the flanges were normal to the detector moderator's axis. Once I get some decent cpm readings I will attempt to calibrate to a limited degree.

Nice not to have to worry about arcing.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Mark Rowley
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Mark Rowley »

Great to hear the excellent news with your new system. Your mention of loading the walls brings up a couple questions. How long does the load typically last in a sufficiently “loaded” system? And if the chamber is opened for some type of service, does the inrush of regular air destroy the loading?

Mark Rowley
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Richard Hull
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Richard Hull »

From my operational experience, it takes about 7 separate days to load a 6" sphere for operation at 12-20 microns and work it at around 40+KV and 15ma to get about 1.3 millions n/s isotropic. There are two issues related to the loss of loading in my system. First the fusor is leaky and when turned off and locked down it leaks a a rate of about 0.1 micron every 1.5 seconds or or 15 seconds per micron. (capacitive gauge)
Second once loaded, I have never opened the system to air as it, over time, will do this on its own. I can load the system and it will respond well after a week of non-use. However, I tend to build it up for a show run and then when the show is over, I might not run the system for 4-5 months. This places me back at square-one for a reload.

Make of the above what you will. After running my fusor for 16 years I do not feel the need to run it often anymore. In an emergency I can give a decent showing with just 3 days of conditioning. and have the 3He counter clicking away to prove I am doing fusion. If, however, I want to activate in a serious manner, that would take 6-8 days to really do well to a significant degree. (exceed the mega mark handily)

The lab is unheated and not air conditioned. Today, the outside temperature was 96 degrees F. I toiled and slaved over a hot fusor for 2 hours with the lab temperature at 93 degrees. I had two large box fans playing on me and the fusor. The fusor shell temperature at shut down was 101 degrees C.!! It could boil water.... If you note in the photos, I have a K type digital temperature gauge as a readout of shell temperature.

Richard Hull
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PID control.jpg
PID control.jpg (87.68 KiB) Viewed 7025 times
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Dennis P Brown
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Dennis P Brown »

I understand both the slow leakage issue and especially the high temps - both for the fusor body and the room!

As I meantion on more than one occasion - while building my reserach facility I really cooked inside it. So glad I included insulation and AC (still wondering if the unit will heat the place enough in deep winter.)

Still, running that fusor hot and in a 96F basement is really dedication! I impressed - even in my yonger days, that would have been unlikely for me - I'd would've far preferred a steam room ;) .

By the way - your continued progress in building mostly highly successful fusors - doesn't that conflict with one of your added statements below your posts?
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Richard Hull
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Richard Hull »

Today the fusor V did a good bit better and I activated silver.

Still far below any decent level to crow about. The best run after 3 hours of constant on time was: 9.3 microns of D2, 32.5 kV @14.4 ma, showing 6601 cpm. The activation proved to be no more than 40% above background, but activation, nonetheless. I figure, at best, maybe 100k n/s iso. Chamber reached 215 deg. C. Due to a box fan on the system, it seems to never get any higher in temp. Another nearly 200% increase over yesterday.

We had a monthly HEAS meeting around my working this fusor run. Seven local HEAS members showed up to bask in the 98 deg F. heat sitting in the shade of my side yard from 12 noon until 3 PM and then into the steaming lab for a fusor run. Three die-hards hung in there until 5:30. I shut it all down at 6:00

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Richard Hull »

The third day of high value tests went on for a total of 3 hours, again. I am now working at almost 11.6 microns of pressure. Improvement is steady but tedious in the 97 deg. F. lab.

The first runs were 2 hours long from 2PM to 4 PM and the best run was 9.8 microns, 37 kV @ 13.8 ma, yielding 15,067 cpm. activated silver easily. I shut down to go inside for the air conditioning.

I came back out at 6 PM for more runs. I did much better in the 12 data runs. The best of the second set was 10.4 microns, 39 kV, @18ma yielding 28,486 CPM!! 300% increase over yesterday's numbers
I pushed in more gas to 11.6 microns, 35 kV @ 16 ma, yielding 18,705 CPM. In spite of more gas, it is the voltage that pushes fusion.

Gas is important, but the fusor is just not ready for this much gas yet. I imagine tomorrow will be a different story.

I will note that fusor V operation with the turbo and especially the precision sapphire leak, is smooth, well controlled and a snap compared to fusor IV

Update 7/21: best run 11.4 microns, 36.3 kV @15.5 ma, yielded 18,249 cpm......

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Richard Hull »

Wednesday's numbers are no better. The chamber reached 133 deg. c. today. Best run: 12 microns, 41 kV, 13.2 ma, 15,683CPM.

I feel the chamber needs some sort of cooling system, but more to the point, I think most of the problem is operational issues. I have never run a turbo in a fusion situation. I worry that I am throttling the turbo line to the fusor chamber either too much or too little. I must now stop trying for numbers and work on finding a sweet operational spot. Most importantly, the image in the camera looks nothing like that on the old fusor IV. No rays at all, no central glow or star. The window may have significant crud on it due to my driving hard. There are issues, but thank goodness no arcing.

I have had, in the distant past an arc on 3 occasions since 2004 leap from the top of the insulator to the conflat cap screws when the chamber voltage rose above 43 kV. I feel I have now solved that issue. In the attached images you see that I have packed high voltage silicone putty over the flange cap screws and the flange edges. additionally, I have completely packed the high radius cap at the top of the insulator with the silicone putty to up under the toroid. The toroid can now work at distributing the E-field to spread it out smoothly.

Richard Hull
Attachments
7.21 (1).JPG
7.21 (4).JPG
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Bob Reite
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Bob Reite »

I'm able to go to 60 KV on my system, once I put a one inch ball for the HV terminal with no corona or arcing. But the big difference in my setup is that the chamber sits on a piece of sheet metal with a hole just big enough for the ceramic to go through. So the grounded surface that the HV sees is perfectly flat with no sharp points. The HV silicon or corona dope is what I've done in the past to cure HV woes.
The more reactive the materials, the more spectacular the failures.
The testing isn't over until the prototype is destroyed.
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Mark Rowley »

Richard
I think you’re right about the throttling issue.

My Varian HS2 Diff Pump was major overkill for my cross fusor and is still overkill for my larger new fusor. In order to get good numbers I have to keep the D2 flow rate pretty high. Conserving D2 by keeping the diff throttled way back has only served to give me dismal numbers. I think you told me once about Carl suggesting to really turn on the gas for a good increase in neutrons. Perhaps it’s something similar.

Mark Rowley
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Richard Hull
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Richard Hull »

I tend to agree about the flow rate. I, for a fact, did follow Carl's advice on fusor IV and my operation and numbers did go up. The turbo is just too damned efficient. In a way, this is a great time to experiment with operation again. I thought I knew it all. Just shows we must never stop learning or get over confident when presented with new challenges.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Richard Hull
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Richard Hull »

Operation may be solved!! I started another group of runs today and only mildly pinched off the chamber from the turbo line. I had been really squeezing off the turbo to conserve gas. I got fairly nice improved results after only three runs...9 Microns, 39 kV, 16.8 ma, 18,874 cpm. The TC gauge on the mechanical line was up to 25 microns! As the chamber heated the results drooped.

Frustrated, I threw caution to the winds. I opened the chamber valve half way open!! (no difference in pressure from wide open) I found amazing results! Instantly stable operation occurred to higher pressures and higher numbers! The TC gauge on the mechanical line soared to a stable 50 microns....My poor lost D2! the results of four great runs.

12.6 microns, 40.3 kV, -16ma, 24,074 CPM
12.9, - 40.1, -16.5, 25,101
13.2, - 39.6, -17.6, 26,125
13.4, - 41.7, -15.5, 30,813

I am much buoyed by this in spite of this modus being a gas gobbler.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
User avatar
Bob Reite
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Re: NEW Fusor V build under way.

Post by Bob Reite »

Maybe your old posts got lost in the crash, but I remember with Fusor IV that you got much better results when you were not so stingy with the D2
The more reactive the materials, the more spectacular the failures.
The testing isn't over until the prototype is destroyed.
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