Deuterium Acquired

For posts specifically relating to fusor design, construction, and operation.
Jack Puntawong
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:10 am
Real name: Kunakorn Puntawong
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
Contact:

Re: Deuterium Acquired

Post by Jack Puntawong » Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:08 pm

Are you sure the $20,000 is for Argon not Xenon ? Cause that would totally make sense.

User avatar
Rich Feldman
Posts: 1138
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:59 pm
Real name: Rich Feldman
Location: Santa Clara County, CA, USA

Re: Deuterium Acquired

Post by Rich Feldman » Thu Aug 06, 2015 1:43 am

Yeah.

The high number reported by David would be in the right ballpark for xenon gas, whose concentration in air is measured in parts per billion. In fact, $100 per cubic foot ($3.50 per liter) would be pretty cheap compared to the last time I looked.

Anyone following news from the ion-propelled Dawn space probe at Ceres? I think a xenon tank fillup cost more than 1/4 million dollars. On the launch pad in 2007, not now in outer space. Initial load was 425 kg -- about 2560 standard cubic feet, or 72.6 standard cubic meters.
Tank internal volume is 270 liters (9½ cubic feet), coincidentally filled to 270 times the density of Xe at STP. But predicted max pressure was only 1310 psia, with the xenon as a supercritical fluid rather than vapor over liquid. See http://llis.nasa.gov/lesson/1777
1014914main_NEN1777-Fig1_small.jpg
[edit] OK, let's put in some more links to inertial confinement fusors.
At full throttle, in new condition, an ion engine on Dawn produces 90 mN of thrust. The weight of 9 grams at Earth's surface.
Xenon volume flow rate is about 30 sccm -- higher than D2 flow in most fusors, but in the same ballpark.
Xenon mass flow rate is at least 100 times more than D2 in most fusors.
Ion beam current is on the order of 1 ampere. Half as much current as one would need to get the same sccm flow of D2 by electrolysis.
Last edited by Rich Feldman on Thu Aug 06, 2015 2:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mike echo oscar whisky! I repeat! Mike echo oscar whisky, how do you copy? Over.

David Kunkle
Posts: 285
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:43 pm
Real name: David Kunkle

Re: Deuterium Acquired

Post by David Kunkle » Thu Aug 06, 2015 2:41 am

All I can say about the possibility of Xe is that the guy said "argon" and that it's the stuff they use to fill windows.

Anyway, I did talk to a regional Praxair manager today. He said he would investigate, and he called me back. He said they no longer carry the 99.7 at all- they only have 99.999 and I was charged the correct price for that 100L. When the counter guy sent in a request for a quote on the 99.7, they sent back a quote for the 99.999. Apparently, the counter guy just didn't bother to tell me the 99.7 didn't exist and here's your quote for 100L of D2.
If your experiment needs statistics, you ought to have done a better experiment.

Ernest Rutherford

David Kunkle
Posts: 285
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:43 pm
Real name: David Kunkle

Re: Deuterium Acquired

Post by David Kunkle » Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:54 am

Little bit of good news. Found out that a $55 charge in that $1500 total was for the cylinder. No rental fee and no return after all. At least I don't have to worry about a monthly fee hanging over my head indefinitely, and I no longer feel like I should try and transfer the D to my own bottle.

Didn't mention this before, but when the regional manager investigated about the price/%D2 fiasco, he said higher ups were curious to know what I was doing with the D2. And he did also mention something about DHS. All I could think was "too late suckers- it's mine now, and you won't be getting it back!" It wasn't an inquisition, but I didn't think it best for any of us down the road to tell him we're going to do nuclear fusion and make neutron radiation and tritium. So, I told him it was for deuterated amino acid compound research.
If your experiment needs statistics, you ought to have done a better experiment.

Ernest Rutherford

Jeremy Sims
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:54 pm
Real name: Jeremy Sims
Location: Southern Ohio

Re: Deuterium Acquired

Post by Jeremy Sims » Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:58 am

I hope DHS never learns how to use Google. Just out of curiosity I searched deuterium+(your name) and this thread was the first hit.
I don't believe this site or any of the common posters are any secret. When Lesker asked why I had made up a company name and why I needed vacuum parts, I didn't hesitate to tell them I was building a fusor and pointed them to this website. That was all they needed to know and immediately agreed to do business. When we start acting like we are doing something wrong is when people get paranoid.
Assuming you do start bottling for sale I will definitely be interested!

David Kunkle
Posts: 285
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:43 pm
Real name: David Kunkle

Re: Deuterium Acquired

Post by David Kunkle » Wed Aug 19, 2015 12:37 pm

You're right. I just tried googling that myself. I've done nothing illegal in any of this, but not the best feeling in the world that google pops me up first with all the idiocy going on these days.

" When Lesker asked why I had made up a company name " So... you lied to Lesker? And got busted? ;) Were you afraid they wouldn't sell you anything at the time?

Companies like Lesker and LDS are pretty cool- they get it and understand it's no big deal. They'll still sell you anything they've got- even though the government makes them get your promise you're not turning around shipping the stuff to Iran.

Problem here is all the gas companies, except for Praxair, gave me the 3rd degree of one sort or another and slammed the door in my face. And unlike high vacuum equipment, there are zero government compliance issues here concerning the D2. Half of them didn't even care enough to ask what I was doing with it- they just won't sell to anyone who isn't a "large university or the government". If a small university doesn't have a chance...... You can sense the paranoia, and some of them even told me it was the lawyers. With Praxair, I just figured if it gets back to lawyers there who probably don't know the difference between a proton and photon, they'll immediately whiz in their diapers, and that'll be the end of them as a source.
If your experiment needs statistics, you ought to have done a better experiment.

Ernest Rutherford

Jeremy Sims
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:54 pm
Real name: Jeremy Sims
Location: Southern Ohio

Re: Deuterium Acquired

Post by Jeremy Sims » Thu Aug 20, 2015 2:41 am

Well technically it wasn't a lie, Lesker's online order form just asks for a company name and my company came into existence at that moment and I became head of research. I don't recall seeing a field requesting information on what you were planning to do with the item. They just wanted to know why they couldn't find any info on it. Every company has to start somewhere. ;-)
Rethinking the paranoia thing, you are right! About half the people I tell about building one get all panicky but tend to settle down the longer I talk.

Post Reply