Deuterium Acquired

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David Kunkle
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Deuterium Acquired

Post by David Kunkle » Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:43 pm

With a week or two delay to get a corporate account approved, the 100L bottle of D2 is now in my garage. With all the trouble I've had finding someone to even sell me D2, I took my truck over there half expecting to get grief for not having proper hold-downs for a tank or some such imaginary thing. Guy says, "sign this and here you go" as he hands me a smallish cardboard box. I was expecting a tank about 2/3rd the size of a regular welding tank! It's a cute little thing about a foot tall, but the same diameter as a full size tank.

With other charges, it cost almost $1500, so I figure I am also now officially open for business. If anyone does want some of this stash, I am only interested in recouping some of my money and will sell it at cost. I would sell it for $150/10L plus shipping if I'm provided with a bottle. And if it becomes just plain illegal to sell it, then the price is $500/L or whatever the market will bear. ;)

It appears to me that it may now be near impossible to buy D2 for the amateur thanks to DHS and lawyers. Only Praxair seems to be selling to non-gov't/non-university entities- and then only thru a business and a minimum of $1500 putting it out of most people's reach. If there's a company out there that I missed somehow, let us all know. Maybe someone at a university would be willing to help out an amateur/student if they understand what the student is doing?

One other downside: Apparently I can't buy the tank- I have to rent it and will get charged about $10 every month until the tank gets returned. On the upside: This D2 is 99.999% pure. Probably not that it makes a big difference, but most of the D2 I looked at was more like 99.7% or some such thing for about the same $/L.

To fill an empty bottle, I figure I can use a "T" to connect the bottles, connecting the 3rd end to the up to air valve on my chamber. Use the turbo to evacuate the empty bottle and connecting lines thru the chamber, close the up to air valve, and then fill the empty bottle, controlling and monitoring the pressure with the D2 tank regulator. Anybody see any problems with this plan or have a better way?
If your experiment needs statistics, you ought to have done a better experiment.

Ernest Rutherford

Aditya Bhattad
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Re: Deuterium Acquired

Post by Aditya Bhattad » Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:48 pm

Congrats on acquiring deuterium.
The experimental setup for transferring D2 sounds good (not that I have any experience myself). Although, if you already have a cylinder, maybe you should transfer D2 before using any, in order to get more gas. This might be helpful:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAeihLkW_UU

David Kunkle
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Re: Deuterium Acquired

Post by David Kunkle » Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:07 am

In case I wasn't clear, turns out that video is exactly what I propose- just with a vacuum chamber between the "T" and the pump. Connection-wise, it'd be easier and cheaper to hook up the "T" to the rubber vacuum hose of my roughing pump. But, I figure it would preserve the purity of the D2 better to go thru the turbo. Not sure if it's worth the trouble yet.

And I don't have any empty cylinders, so the cost to get some just to try to get the rented tank empty doesn't seem worth it.

Although I have wondered what they'd do or charge me for the cylinder if I told them, "Uhhh, I don't have your cylinder anymore...there was this accident you see.....no one's seen it since it shot thru the wall of the lab."
If your experiment needs statistics, you ought to have done a better experiment.

Ernest Rutherford

Aditya Bhattad
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Re: Deuterium Acquired

Post by Aditya Bhattad » Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:53 am

No, no you were perfectly clear, I just thought you'd like to see it actually done before you do it yourself.
I am looking for small amounts of D2 myself right now. Would've definitely considered buying from you, if I were anywhere in North America.

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Richard Hull
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Re: Deuterium Acquired

Post by Richard Hull » Sat Aug 01, 2015 3:39 pm

I applaud your effort and success in acquiring deuterium. You over paid for purity that will take you nowhere in relation to fusing though. The fusor can't tell the difference between 999 and 999999 purity. Most folks who do sell the 999 stuff charge about $300 for 50 liters of 999 pure and they refuse to ever take back or refill the tank!! My last purchase of 50 liters was in 2013 and the costs were $165.00 for the gas, $109 for the tank and $20 hazmat shipping fee. They force you to buy the tank...No one in the normal biz charges rent or leasing on lecture bottles. They are throw-aways. Ultra-pure gas tanks may be an exception.

I am rather amazed you got them to sell the ultra-pure stuff to you as opposed to the 999 common tank gas.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

David Kunkle
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Re: Deuterium Acquired

Post by David Kunkle » Sun Aug 02, 2015 1:18 am

Since you mentioned overpaying for purity, I just looked again at their website. Their website has only one part # for D2 which is DT 2.7. Only variable is the different quantities with a stated purity of 99.7% for the 3 different sizes.

http://www.praxair.com/~/media/North%20 ... ageC19.pdf

They originally quoted the $1500 price for that part # which is what I thought I was getting. But the bottle I picked up clearly states 99.999%, and the part # is DT 5.0-F on the invoice and on the bottle for the $1500. Will be calling them on Monday. It appears they do have another grade not on the website, and the quote they gave and the bottle sent is a different grade even though we talked only about DT 2.7 several times. Maybe I can return it for the cheaper grade or get a refund for the difference.

In light of all the above, and unless someone gives me a reason otherwise, I'll use the roughing pump to evacuate the empty bottle to do transfers. Lot cheaper and easier to put together a transfer system to use the roughing pump. More importantly to me, even if the new bottle was filled to 100 psi and there was a whopping 1 psi of air left in the empty bottle to start, the D2 would still be 99% pure. So if evacuated to the 5 micron ability of my roughing pump, that's an absolutely miniscule amount of air left to dilute the D2 compared to 1 psi.
If your experiment needs statistics, you ought to have done a better experiment.

Ernest Rutherford

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Richard Hull
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Re: Deuterium Acquired

Post by Richard Hull » Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:05 pm

Properly evacuated cylinders carefully refilled will be fine and even 97% pure is just great. The pure purest fusioneer gets nothing big in the returns for 99.999 pure.

Using superlative instrumentation, fusion could probably be detected readily in a fusor at 75% purity.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

David Kunkle
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Re: Deuterium Acquired

Post by David Kunkle » Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:33 pm

So, roughing pump it is, then. I'll start collecting parts to make everything fit together.

Called local Praxair distributor back this a.m. He said the reason is production had switched to 99.999 to fill large orders and 99.7 wasn't available. Also, even if they had the 99.7, it would have been closer to $2000 because they don't produce near as much. I didn't get the impression he was FOS, but I may call the national sales office and see if I get the same story. I asked if the price of D2 had gone up, and he said just about everything had shot up the past year or so. FWIW, he said argon was up to $20,000/bottle. Yeah, put me down for 6 bottles.
If your experiment needs statistics, you ought to have done a better experiment.

Ernest Rutherford

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Rich Feldman
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Re: Deuterium Acquired

Post by Rich Feldman » Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:23 pm

Cuthbert (Aditya):
You started out here with username same as real name.
Then changed your username in the wrong direction -- the rules say no pseudonyms.
Also, please post something about yourself in the Introduction forum.
Thanks!
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Richard Hull
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Re: Deuterium Acquired

Post by Richard Hull » Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:58 am

That Argon is a joke! Tank argon of 99% goes on a refill of 200 cubic feet for about $30.00 - $45.00 at most any welding shop on earth. Don't let them play around with you. Argon ain't rare. About 1% of every breath you take is pure argon.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

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