Gayo 2021 Update

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Joe Gayo
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Gayo 2021 Update

Post by Joe Gayo » Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:07 am

Since designing and building the first "cube fusor" several years ago, I've been focused on surpassing 1E+8 n/sec TIER.

Recently, my latest version has consistently exceeded this threshold. I've validated this achievement with bubble dosimeters, calibrated REM ball, and activation foils.

Voltage/Current/Counts Data
CaptureRecord-Graph.PNG
Neutron TIER Calculation
CaptureRecord.PNG


Indium Activation (5min post-activation), 8000 cts in 60 seconds!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxQvoyQIpnE
Last edited by Joe Gayo on Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Richard Hull
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Re: Gayo 2021 Update

Post by Richard Hull » Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:31 am

Fabulous work Joe! Very well presented data logging and reduction via the math. The voltage is what is getting you there, of course. The slope of the D-D fusion X-section is very steep from 10kv on up to over 150kv. This assumes a great fusor and system which you obviously have at hand. I never thought I would see a fusor approach a milliwatt of fusion energy. You are only one decade short of that seemingly impossible goal.

That right axis....Shouldn't it be current mA/100 instead of X100. Dividing by 100 would jibe with your 5.8ma avg. listed below. I love graphs created in a many axis clever way to present a lot of data with the axis notation clear and cleanly presented. Yours was a great one.

Your x-ray output must be something to be dealt with, even with the low Z chamber material.

Again, fabulous result!

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

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Dennis P Brown
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Re: Gayo 2021 Update

Post by Dennis P Brown » Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:24 am

Extremely impressive results; adding some current pics would be welcome

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Jim Kovalchick
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Re: Gayo 2021 Update

Post by Jim Kovalchick » Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:38 pm

Joe,
Congrats on 10⁸!

How long can it run?

Stay safe.

Jim K

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Joe Gayo
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Re: Gayo 2021 Update

Post by Joe Gayo » Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:00 pm

@Richard

Thanks! Good catch, I updated the units for current on the right axis.

The x-rays are quite fierce. At a distance of 25ft and through shielding my MIRION x-ray/gamma dosimeter registers a 0.4mRem (dose) for 10minutes of total operation.

@Dennis

I'll be posting more pictures (but there isn't much to see)

@Jim

Right now I'm limiting the runs to 1 minute out of an abundance of caution, but my intention is to keep pushing the time limit.

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Frank Sanns
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Re: Gayo 2021 Update

Post by Frank Sanns » Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:19 pm

Top rate work Joe. Congratulations.

My only questions are in the derivation of your neutron output. Within our group Jon Rosenstiel probably has the highest neutron numbers to date but yours are nearly 2 orders of magnitude higher.

Also, the University of Wisconsin has touched the 1 x 10^8 neutron level. The U of W needed nearly 200 kv and 75 ma of current to touch levels that you are exceeding with a small fraction of the power. What do you attribute a couple orders of magnitude improvement in output to?

For activation, the smaller fusors have a huge advantage dues to the inverse square law but the total isotropic numbers do not change. Curious of your thoughts.

JoeBallantyne
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Re: Gayo 2021 Update

Post by JoeBallantyne » Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:58 pm

Amazing work Joe!

Frank, Joe has spent years doing research, simulations, and real engineering to improve his Q.

If I were him, my answer to your question of why his Q is 2 orders of magnitude better, would be simply: Good ideas properly implemented with careful engineering.

I don't think he is necessarily going to want to disclose all the nitty gritty details.

Except perhaps in patent filings... :-)

Joe.

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Richard Hull
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Re: Gayo 2021 Update

Post by Richard Hull » Thu Jun 24, 2021 7:25 pm

As I note in a just delivered new FAQ, there is a limit due to the physics. Joe is "pecking the lobes" of that limit. More might be possible, but fusion physics and cross sections rule. At the voltage limit of 150kv applied only higher currents stand a chance at fusion increase, thus demanding more robust energy absorbing internals. (Dissipation)
If current can be increased at 150kv without harm, then only pressure and deuteron number increases can go higher.

There are routes to more fusion, but limited by material science from what I can see.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

JoeBallantyne
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Re: Gayo 2021 Update

Post by JoeBallantyne » Thu Jun 24, 2021 7:44 pm

A few years back I went to the Phoenix guys website. (Company started by Greg Pfeiffer - who also started SHINE.)

See https://phoenixwi.com/neutron-generator ... enerators/

They ship neutron sources that are DT and DD based.

I calculated their Q based on the then published neutron outputs and power inputs, and recall getting either 10e-4 or 10e-6. (Pretty sure it was 10e-4, but am not positive about that.)

Looks like they have buried some of the information that used to be available on their site. (Like voltage and current power supply outputs.)

So it might be more difficult to rerun their numbers.

But they were at least 3 orders of magnitude better than a typical fusor. (10e-9)

I would be really careful about declaring some physical upper bound on Q, or Joe Gayo may just set his next target at proving you wrong. :-)

I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be doing any of the work he is doing, if he thought Q>1 was not possible.

Thermonuclear bombs would not exist if Q>1 was not possible.

They exist.

Joe.
Last edited by JoeBallantyne on Thu Jun 24, 2021 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Richard Hull
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Re: Gayo 2021 Update

Post by Richard Hull » Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:09 pm

Always happy about being proven wrong via the doing as it is the final word, but regardless, it will always obey the physics. I have clearly stated that fusion can be pushed in a fusor at the150kv limit. More current at that voltage will do it provided the material science and device will allow it. I see no issue with 10e11 Tier in a "special fusor-like device".

The instant such a device is marketed or taken on in a professional, scintific-scholastic or remunerative effort it leaves the realm of an amateur device. Currently, I assume it is just Joe and he is not being paid or working for a company to develop his device. Tom Ligon in 1997 was doing real D-D fusion for Doc Bussard and paid to do so by Doc's company EMCC or EMC squared, (Energy Matter Conversion Corp). Tom was not admitted to the neutron club at fusor.net until late in 2002 when he built his truly privately funded simple amateur fusor for display at a science fiction convention in that year. picture below.

We will forever be interested in any interesting professional devices based on a fusor-like assembly of novel design.

Richard Hull
Attachments
0ligonfusor.jpg
Tom Ligon's personal home built fusor that finally got him into the neutron club.
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

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