Fusor as an oscillator....A serious discussion

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JoeBallantyne
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Re: Fusor as an oscillator....A serious discussion

Post by JoeBallantyne » Thu May 27, 2021 10:21 pm

Assuming that the d+D2 graph at higher energies curves in a similar way to the h+D2 graph, and that they both fall as fast as they rise in the lower energy region, you could arguably say that the cross section might be as much as a factor of 10 smaller - 1*10e-16, which would make the MFP 10 times longer or on the order of 30cm or so. Most amateur fusors don't have chambers that big.

Joe.

Joe Gayo
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Re: Fusor as an oscillator....A serious discussion

Post by Joe Gayo » Thu May 27, 2021 10:29 pm

Joe

You have to get to that point in the curve. I'm done arguing. I've shared all the necessary information to see what's happing.

I'm going back to work on my devices to make more neutrons.

Good luck.

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Frank Sanns
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Re: Fusor as an oscillator....A serious discussion

Post by Frank Sanns » Fri May 28, 2021 12:06 am

We do not have to agree and I get it. I have been through the graphs and done the calculations. At the end of the day though, experimental evidence has to be considered as it is the real environment that we are working in.

To add some facts, essentially 100% off all electrons, at all of potentials within the operating fusor are lost to wall heating. They provide essentially zero ionizations. Any ionization that is done is essentially only by ions and fast neutral atoms and molecules.

The ionizations are made visible by the recombination of electrons and falling energy levels from previously ionized gas. This gives a clearly visible marker to where the ions are in the fusor.

I had been intrigued on how these long star trails do not stop at the outer grid (10 inches in my case) but pass on to the outer chamber, sometimes 4 inches past that. This cannot occur if an ion on the other side of the fusor is accelerated to to potential and then loses the potential on the way out. Conservation of energy says it can't go higher than the energy put in just like dropping a ball on the ground can't go any higher than the height from which it was dropped. However, every single day of operation, I see complete violation of this conservation law. The only answer is that there are tangential paths from a previous fall. Energy is maintained and the momentum vector changes direction for the next path. This residual energy is the only explanation for the longer exit paths than the entrance one.

The heat marks on the inside of all of our fusors are the result of these ions hitting the walls with significant residual energy and even enough to cause fusion pithing the wall itself. That energy cannot come from simply falling through a potential and losing that energy on the exit.

Here is a photo of the electrons origins and patterns on the wall of a temporary Pyrex spherical insulation within my fusor. Notice no visible plasma where the electrons are accelerated toward the walls, in this case and insulator that fluoresces in the electron beam. It is in the Images section under Tickling the Fusor Dragon.
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JoeBallantyne
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Re: Fusor as an oscillator....A serious discussion

Post by JoeBallantyne » Fri May 28, 2021 3:21 am

@Joe - My intention was not to argue, or be difficult. Simply to try to understand where you got the numbers you were plugging into your equations. I agree with you that the MFP is most likely on the order of cm or 10s of cm, not meters or 10s of meters for a fusor that is running at 5-15 microns (5*10e-3 torr). My understanding is that your fusor runs at MUCH lower pressures like 10e-5 torr. Which would mean that your MFP ought to be significantly higher.

@Frank - Assuming your fusor has a visible plasma ball in the center (Joe Gayo's does not as his pressures are much lower.) Then there will be at least some transfer of energy between ions in the plasma, and there will therefore be some percentage of the ions that actually end up with a higher speed than what you are driving the plasma with. ie: some of the ions will come out hotter than the hottest ions you are sending in. And they will smash into the walls and get lost. I don't know that anyone has proven exactly what kind of energy distribution there is in the plasma in the center of a typical fusor, but I suspect it may be more Maxwellian than most want to admit. In which case the tail of the distribution could have ions with energies higher than the ones you are driving the plasma with.

From what you are describing, that MUST be the case, as you said there are visible indications of activity outside your anode.

Joe.

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Dennis P Brown
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Re: Fusor as an oscillator....A serious discussion

Post by Dennis P Brown » Sun May 30, 2021 10:49 am

While most power supplies are more Lorentzian in out put power, these also have tails; further, as I understand, any semi-sharp or sharp metal surface can and will create significantly higher potentials allowing a small number of electrons to accelerate well above the PS normal potential - this is often exploited with needle point discharges. Of course, the average of all power the supply can achieve is conserved.

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