Are there any good software programs that could simulate the motion of deuterons on an electric field?

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Joshua Guertler
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Are there any good software programs that could simulate the motion of deuterons on an electric field?

Post by Joshua Guertler » Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:49 am

I'm doing some research that has to do with Hirsch-Farnsworth fusors. Likewise, I was curious if there were any software programs that might be able to simulate the motion of deuterons in the electric field of a fusor's grid. Ideally, I'd want something that could display the ions moving in the electric field with a visual. Thank you.

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Maciek Szymanski
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Re: Are there any good software programs that could simulate the motion of deuterons on an electric field?

Post by Maciek Szymanski » Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:25 am

The exacted of software you are thinking about is Simion. It even was used to simulate ions in a fusor:

https://youtu.be/KhYKnPy1pz0

But for other hand such simulation will be very far from reality, as it doesn't take in account mix of neutrals, ions and electrons, ionization - neutralization processes and space charge effect which in my opinion are more important in the overall image than the ion circulation. The more realistic approach is probably possible with some PIC code (there are many, some are even free but rather no fancy graphical output). I've seen PIC code applied to polywell with some success and agreement with experiment. But this kind of simulation requires rather huge amount of computing power and is usually done with supercomputers. You can of course run it an a PC but expect weeks of calculation for a single case.
In my opinion an analytical-statistical model in the lines of Langmuir-Blodgett (Hirsch and Farnsworth has done it this way) with some empirical corrections from experimental data will serve better.
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Joshua Guertler
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Re: Are there any good software programs that could simulate the motion of deuterons on an electric field?

Post by Joshua Guertler » Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:49 am

Greetings,

Thank you for your response. Out of curiosity, do you know if there are any free softwares that don't require a license? Thank you.

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Maciek Szymanski
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Re: Are there any good software programs that could simulate the motion of deuterons on an electric field?

Post by Maciek Szymanski » Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:59 am

Smilei is an open source PIC code which is actively developed and has been used in actual research work.

https://smileipic.github.io/Smilei/index.html
“Begin at the beginning," the King said, very gravely, "and go on till you come to the end: then stop.” ― Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland

Joshua Guertler
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Re: Are there any good software programs that could simulate the motion of deuterons on an electric field?

Post by Joshua Guertler » Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:45 pm

Thank you, does this need to be run on linux or is it compatible with windows 10?

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Maciek Szymanski
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Re: Are there any good software programs that could simulate the motion of deuterons on an electric field?

Post by Maciek Szymanski » Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:30 pm

It may be possible to compile it on windows as it's pure number-crunching code without any fancy UI but probably no one needed that, and the code is highly optimized for multi threading and multiprocessor operation so porting may be not trivial.
“Begin at the beginning," the King said, very gravely, "and go on till you come to the end: then stop.” ― Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland

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Richard Hull
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Re: Are there any good software programs that could simulate the motion of deuterons on an electric field?

Post by Richard Hull » Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:32 pm

Maciek, really put the nail in the coffin by pointing out that even simon can't be of much value beyind its use in a purely theoretical, highly controlled, idealized and warranted environment.

The simple fusor is a real mess and intrinsically un-modellable, perhaps not even with a super computer! Yet it does fusion in kitchens, basements and garages, world wide now. A real mess of fun.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

Justin Fozzard
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Re: Are there any good software programs that could simulate the motion of deuterons on an electric field?

Post by Justin Fozzard » Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:46 pm

I've had some success using Mathcad for simulating the interaction of electrons and deuterons in various combined electrostatic and magnetic fields. You can also simulate particles moving in RF fields along axisymetric B fields by using Mathcad's built in programming language but it is rather slow.

Here are some PDFs of examples from a 2013 plasma physics course (University of Colorado, Physics 4150) and also include some simple PIC simulations:
Physics 4150 Mathcad PDFs 1-5.pdf
(2.42 MiB) Downloaded 19 times
Physics 4150 Mathcad PDFs 6-13.pdf
(4.96 MiB) Downloaded 13 times
Mathcad 14 can be found free online and will run all the examples above. The latest version, Mathcad Prime 6.0 includes Mathcad 15.0, but is subscription only and quite expensive.

I can supply relevant .mcd files for the course if you email me.

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Nicolas Krause
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Re: Are there any good software programs that could simulate the motion of deuterons on an electric field?

Post by Nicolas Krause » Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:24 pm

Starfish is an open-source program, but it's limited to 2d. I believe some members of Fusor.net have used it. In addition I worked through the fundamentals PIC course offered on the website this summer during the pandemic. It was very reasonably priced, $25 for a student and I felt I really got my money's worth. His other courses cost a bit more and I haven't taken any of them.

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