Ask MIT Admissions Anything

[Alexandru_Calburean]

Hello All,

My name is Alex Calburean, a long time fusor.net lurker and now an MIT alum. Alongside Chris Peterson — an admissions officer at MIT — and with permission from Richard, I'm posting to see if any fusor.net members have any questions about studying nuclear science/engineering as an undergraduate at MIT, or about the admissions process. Several fusor.net members have now come through MIT's course 22, and so Chris was interested in seeing if anyone here had questions about the program or process. With that said, please feel free to ask questions about the admissions process, the undergraduate nuclear program, or any related questions of either of us.

[Joe Gayo]

Hi Alex,

I have a question -

How is the excessive cost of undergraduate education at top-tier schools, which also have massive endowments, justified? Please don't tell me that those who need assistance get it, because I know from personal experience that's not true.

I think education is largely dependant on the student's determination to succeed, not the prestige of the school. My opinion is that a state school is a far better option for undergraduate education.

Joe

[Chris Peterson]

Hello All,

My name is Alex Calburean, a long time fusor.net lurker and now an MIT alum. Alongside Chris Peterson — an admissions officer at MIT — and with permission from Richard, I'm posting to see if any fusor.net members have any questions about studying nuclear science/engineering as an undergraduate at MIT, or about the admissions process. Several fusor.net members have now come through MIT's course 22, and so Chris was interested in seeing if anyone here had questions about the program or process. With that said, please feel free to ask questions about the admissions process, the undergraduate nuclear program, or any related questions of either of us.

Hi everyone! I'm Chris. I've been an admissions officer at MIT since 2009, and I first learned of fusor.net from some of our applicants (it might have actually been Alex's application, which I read 5+ years ago now). As Alex said, I'm mainly here to be a resource to answer any questions you may have — about MIT specifically, and other college admissions as I am able — not to recruit or whatever per se. We have many questions answered at mitadmissions.org, where we've been blogging ~daily since 2004, but I'm happy to address more specific questions folks might have here too.

[Chris Peterson]

Hi Alex,

I have a question -

How is the excessive cost of undergraduate education at top-tier schools, which also have massive endowments, justified? Please don't tell me that those who need assistance get it, because I know from personal experience that's not true.

I think education is largely dependant on the student's determination to succeed, not the prestige of the school. My opinion is that a state school is a far better option for undergraduate education.

Joe

Hi Joe —

Happy to field this one, since it's more my domain than Alex's, and I'll speak specifically to MIT, rather than try to address/defend/explain "top-tier schools" overall, since honestly, a lot of it escapes me too.

At MIT, we are one of only five American institutions to offer need-blind, full-need admissions. This means we only award financial aid on the basis of demonstrated financial need, and we are committed to meeting full financial need. We awarded almost $130m in financial aid grants — not loans — last year to our ~4,500 undergraduates. 82% of the Class of 2021 graduated debt-free, and those who did carry debt graduated with an average debt of $26,160, 11% below the national average of $29,290. The average MIT student who received financial aid — which is most students — got $45k in grants, and about a third of our students don't pay any tuition at all.

So the typical net price — after financial aid — of MIT is actually quite a bit lower than the sticker price, which is, by some calculations, quite a bit lower than the cost-to-MIT to actually educate students, the balance of which is made up by drawing down our endowment returns (which is also where our generous financial aid comes from, to your point of what we do with all of our money). Put more plainly: the "justification" of the "excessive cost" (to use your words) of the MIT education is that only the very affluent pay that full price, and everyone else pays, on a sliding scale, what our research suggests they can afford, with MIT making up the difference in grant aid (i.e. free money that does not have to be paid back).

This is a hard thing to communicate in the public sphere, so I'm glad you asked it. Based on the numbers I quoted earlier, the 18% of MIT students who do have debt in 2021 have less debt, on average, than I did when I graduated from the University of Massachusetts-Amherst back in 2009, where I paid in-state tuition.

As an alum of a state flagship institution, I think they're great options, and I would never speak ill of them, or tell students that MIT is a "better" school for them than their state flagship. I genuinely don't believe schools are better or worse, objectively: I think different schools are better or worse *for specific people,* based on their goals, their learning styles, where they feel at home culturally, and so on. I do think that MIT has advantages, particularly for aspiring nuclear technologists, with our unusually robust options and facilities for undergrads that I'm not sure many other schools can materially match. Alex can tell you more about those, though, as someone who actually works in that field.

[Richard Hull]

Alex and Chris.... we, here, never quote past text in a reply within a single thread. We are all smart cookies and are capable of following recent threads. This practice might work in blogs and personal space pages but we consider it more of an afront to our understanding and ability to comprehend on first reading. We can comprehend on our first reading in a thread. Do not feel bad. Every now and then we have to raise this issue with new folks appearing here.

Richard Hull

[Chris Peterson]

Thanks Richard! I've posted on vbulletin/phpbb forums for more than 20 years and this is the first time I have come across that particular rule; always fun to learn something new in a unfamiliar corner of the Internet. I'll observe that practice from now on, and I appreciate you taking an educational approach to it. Like I told Alex when we talked about this, I definitely don't want to "intrude" on your particular community. I just have a lot of respect for it from seeing some of the students who have come through here over the years, and hope to be a help if I can to other prospective college students interested in this kind of unconventional high school activity, whether or not they want to go to MIT.

[RobertMendelsohn]

Hello y'all,

Thank you for taking the time to answer people's questions. Do you know about the graduate admissions at MIT? I will be applying for their physics PhD program.

A more general question, likely of interest to others on this forum, is "how is independent research, such as making fusors, etc., perceived by admissions staff?"
I think we've all struggled with our work being perceived as quackery from those unfamiliar with vacuum/plasma technology, when an independent interest in scientific endeavors would otherwise be a '+' for admissions.
Are there things we can do to frame our work/interest in fusion in a relatable way?

Sincerely,

Robert

[Dennis P Brown]

Robert, you ask about Grad school and building fusors; you need to understand that in STEM (Grad programs only), most students are employed by the grad school and earn money (not a lot) as a salary by being a TA (or a few lucky ones, RA); tuition is included. You also do experimental work for the Prof who employs you. As such you do work for the Professor and it is their area of research you do, not your own. If you want to work on the side, the Prof might allow you lab space but in general, you do the research the Prof wants done. You can get papers published as you finish course work and depending on the university - earn high enough grades or past a qualifying examination to earn the right to start your thesis research.

Depending on your parents income MIT can offer huge discounts on tuition (undergrad) - I paid about 15% of the listed tuition for my daughter (room and board not included.)

As for admission to grad school, that depends highly on your grades, school standing, letters of recommendation, and the dreaded GRE's (general and in physics.)

[Scott Moroch]

Robert,

Although I am not an admissions officer, I just started my first year as a Physics PhD student at MIT. In my experience, many of the faculty members welcomed my side projects (including the fusor). I included this on my application and discussed it during my interview. My advisor has also been a big supporter of my independent hobbies/interests in this area. I should say, however, that you should be careful. You do not want to give off the impression that you are being unsafe and irresponsible with high voltage, radiation, etc.

Unlike undergraduate admissions, your application will be read by several faculty members in physics. They will understand what is involved when you describe a fusor.

To follow-up with what Dennis wrote, I think graduate admissions are primarily a function of:
1. Research
2. Letters of Recommendation
3. Grades

I don't believe the GRE is required anymore - and for good reason - numerous studies have shown that it is not a good indicator of whether or not a student will be successful in graduate school. If the exams are required this year, I think their weight is substantially less than the three items I listed above.

Hope this helps.
-Scott

[RobertMendelsohn]

Not to press you about "would I get in?", but I'm concerned because my grades in undergraduate (Mathematics, University of Texas) were probably a B+ or B average.
However, I work at a scientific software company, and my boss (Dr. Stephen Wolfram) is an extremely notable physicist and I will have a recommendation from him.
Do you think it will severely affect my chances that I have an undergrad in math rather than physics? And not excellent grades?
Could a real recommendation from someone who knows me and with whom I work with every day and is a notable physicist change that?

Are there other things I should be doing to strengthen my application (beyond seriously studying for the GRE etc.)?

Thank you for your advice!!

[Dennis P Brown]

Like any university, admissions is an internal affair (so I have no clue about MIT) but what most universities want is a student that will succeed - complete a thesis and aid the professor in their research. I've known of a math major (physics minor but a straight 'A' student) undergraduate who easily got into grad school for physics but at another university so not being a physics major I'd think is ok for many schools (again, no idea on MIT.) But as in all things in life, don't put all your hopes into one school or program. Apply to a number of universities - there are a lot of top programs in a number of schools. Also, there is nothing wrong with being a math major in Grad school, either. A lot of good paying career paths as well in that field. I seriously doubt anyone will speculate on grades relative to how a school will weigh that because that is solely dependent to the given grad school - but certainly good grades in your major is an important consideration - also, did you maybe take some physics courses? That would certainly help.

[Chris Peterson]

Just posting to say that I can't speak to graduate admissions. They are not run out of our office. I did manage to get into MIT once for grad school (I did my masters in the media studies program), but how that happened remains a mystery to me!

As for undergraduate admissions...well, I still remember reading Alex's Maker Portfolio, where he showed us his fusors, and we had some faculty look at them. Now Alex, along with some Nuclear Engineering faculty, are among the people who read those portfolios! I'm not a domain expert so I certainly can't tell you what they look for, but I have heard them comment about a mixture of creativity, skill, and safety (see e.g. Richard's post from viewtopic.php?t=2674, which has been referenced by those folks).