What's in a name? Verbiage may matter.

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Frank Sanns
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Re: What's in a name? Verbiage may matter.

Post by Frank Sanns » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:09 pm

I will repeat that a vast majority of member of the site started with a classical design. They learned and built and evolved into other things. At no time did anybody suggest that other designs and efficiencies were not welcome. All work and evolution is welcome no matter the build or the theory. Nothing has changed here.

The question becomes, what does fusor.net represent to a new person coming onto the site? While I said mason jars were good, that is stretching it. I think we all agree that somebody with at least some skill and drive will take the plunge and build at least a reasonable vacuum system and power supply. It is up to them what is next.

Where the verbiage comes in has more to do with the flow and mission of the site. I do not have this answer hence the threads. It is a classical fusor site first for education and historic reasons or is it all all out rush to neutrons any way you can? If the later, the less serious will take the path of least resistance. It is this portion of the mission of fusor.net that needs to be clarified. It is not to limit anybody or their contributions but rather, what is the path? I think this is an important question that we are only now on the brink of having to make.

Also are some related safety issues that we as a group continue to warn new people about. X-rays, neutrons and even some fusion byproducts from the ultra high neutron producing units. We are pushing the envelope and more as time goes on and have to be aware of some of the secondary ramifications.

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Mark Rowley
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Re: What's in a name? Verbiage may matter.

Post by Mark Rowley » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:17 pm

Specific to BoT, pinch, or whatever, I contend those are the path of more resistance. Device complexity, supporting infrastructure, and lack of amateur builds to draw from make these a migraine in comparison. I just don’t see the threat. Any motivated newbie or rookie will assuredly begin with a classic fusor.

I’m in 100% agreement on your last point Frank. May be worthy of a separate post or an off-line discussion.

Mark Rowley

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Jim Kovalchick
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Re: What's in a name? Verbiage may matter.

Post by Jim Kovalchick » Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:10 pm

Frank,
You presented two options for what forum should be without really presenting the best option.

You questioned whether it should be a traditional fusor site or a rush to neutrons site. I submit that, while closer to the former, it is currently neither. This forum is already a spot where people share data for "amateur" study of fusion. The fusor is most common because it's the easiest. What is really wrong with that? Are not people intelligent enough to make up their own minds what data they take away? If someone wants to build a fusor, shouldn't they be bright enough to pick out what they need from the forum?

If all the forum needs to do is teach how to build a fusor, we may as well just lock it for posting now. It's already done.

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Richard Hull
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Re: What's in a name? Verbiage may matter.

Post by Richard Hull » Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:23 pm

We have already noted that Joe is near some sort of personal safety limit, which he is busy covering as best he can.

At some point, if another amateur stumbles into the 60-70kv and above range, the typical warnings must be reiterated. Naturally, no one and I mean no one in the rank amateur class will show up here and in month or two be pumping out deadly radiation. Not even dangerous radiation or any significant dose.

Most arriving will do what they have always done. Fail! A few will do fusion and prove it and then disappear like a fart in a whirlwind. .1% will stick learn and contribute having done fusion and learned all about safety via the FAQs and admonitions. The safety issue is one for the advancing fusioneer looking to break the 60kv barrier, for whatever personal reason. They will typically have the smarts to protect themselves and any others who many be observers. A ton of Safety posts exist in the radiation forum and FAQs related to mainly X-rays which are the number one problem due to current at voltage.

Oh, there is no low hanging fruit methodology to obtaining fusion or neutrons.

The mission and kit will always be a personal one and not a fusor.net issue.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

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Frank Sanns
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Re: What's in a name? Verbiage may matter.

Post by Frank Sanns » Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:20 pm

I am surprised with all of the turmoil of these threads. We are looking at an ADMINISTRATIVE choice of the mission of the site. It in no way affects the work being done from start to finish.

Everybody seems to have been in acceptance of the site layout and evolution up to this point. All of the basic forum structure has come from reflection on where the site has progressed to.

This latest evaluation of of flow and layout is nothing to be so agitated about. They are legitimate questions for NOW. If something was missed in 2002 then maybe or maybe not it is time to look at it now.

NOTHING of the work or recognitions will change. What MAY change is the flow of people being introduced to a historical site called fusor.net. It may be as simple as another FAQ that brings people through the operation and history of a classical fusor first. Then maybe more descriptive titles for variations on the theme of the type of neutron producing device for clarity and search function.

I have already had an email exchange with Paul and we are talking this week so keep you input coming but let's not get too carried away.

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Paul_Schatzkin
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Re: What's in a name? Verbiage may matter.

Post by Paul_Schatzkin » Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:58 pm

Checking in from the void...

Frank gave me a heads up on this discussion, he and I will talk later in the week, and then perhaps I'll weigh in.

Bus? The only bus I know of is the one that Philo T Farnsworth III (oldest son of TV/Fusor inventor) spoke of, and all he ever said about a bus was "face the front of it."

--P
Paul Schatzkin, aka "The Perfesser" – Founder and Host of Fusor.net
Author of The Boy Who Invented Television - http://farnovision.com/book.html
"Fusion is not 20 years in the future; it is 50 years in the past and we missed it."

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Richard Hull
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Re: What's in a name? Verbiage may matter.

Post by Richard Hull » Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:58 pm

Yes, the front of the bus points to where it is headed. Its destination. A destination is whatever it is when you get there. Where you came from may be different from your destination. However, what your work product was at your origin, (fusion), so it should be at your destination to stay on mission. (fusion).

History is always important especially to me, a history buff. This is especially true since I was there at the beginning and sought out the pre-history via travel and spending treasure to interview the originals. This history has been shared already here by me and Paul. 60 years ago it all started with Philo and his dream and his team. 22 years ago it restarted here via songs, Intranet and now, fusor.net. The one thing that has never changed is the mission of fusion. Only the kit to get it done has changed. Neutrons are proof of successful fusion. More neutrons....More fusion. More activation, more fusion.

I see no contention here just dead-on mission, continuing unabated with recent improvements fully welcomed. This is an amateur effort. Always has been and always should be. I don't receive a paycheck doing this nor does anyone else here. I only see money going away from me in this biz.

All who read this..... I am about to send Paul a check to support his continued having to pay for this venue. You might also consider doing the same.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

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