THORELLO device project

[byron addams]

i am thinking of makeing a thorello device witch is about as close as i could get to bulding a TOKAMAK reactor.

i was thinking of makeing it feom this stainless steel thingy that i found on ebay and it i can get it to work i will make a full scale version i am hopeing that the sise of the device doesnt matter the same as in a fusor.

if anney one else has information on the Thorello device it would be realy useful becaulds it is dificult to find anny information other than the turbulance in the plasma.

[byron addams]

a cad desighn i made for it.

[Mark Rowley]

That’s the easy part.
The pulse forming network and related hardware is the hard stuff. I’d highly recommend you dig into those specifics before dumping money into the aesthetically pleasing stuff (toroidal chambers, pinch coils, etc).

MR

[Richard Hull]

Mark's advice is sage. What seems easy is never easy. There are always gotchas' that the layman will crash into. The fact that not one living amateur has made this form of fusion device might give one pause and force one to look very deeply into all aspects of the project. If you persist, take Mark's advice. Read, read and then read some more.

Richard Hull

[byron addams]

A screanshot from the cad model.

[byron addams]

@Mark Rowley
@Richard Hull

Thankyou for the advice i am trying to look into it as much as i can and althogh there is not much information on it. Althogh the information i have fount seems to not be too hard for me to build it. The pinch coils only need to go up to 0.2 tesla and the plasma ignition source is not that complecated and does not require too much power. Althogh it does not get hot enough to create fusion so it is more of a plasma physics and demonstration thing. If anyone has more information or documentation on this subject it would be graitly appreciated as there is not much online.

Here is some of the more useful information that i have found.

Bicoherence in the magnetised plasma of the Thorello device.pdf

(87.03 KiB) Downloaded 192 times

THORELLO Toroidal plasma device.jpeg (57.52 KiB) Viewed 2132 times

[Mark Rowley]

It’s not a simple pinch. The waveform of the pulse discharge coming off the low inductance capacitor bank has to be specific. To generate such a waveform at high currents takes a lot of engineering that surpasses the vacuum chamber and work coils... by a large degree!

If you look at this Los Alamos ad from 1958, they greatly highlight the importance. Just a slight difference in pulse shape results in a dead / zero output shot. This is a fact whether it’s a linear or toroidal system.

Mark Rowley

[Mark Rowley]

If you want to just make a demonstration device to show plasma compression, I’d recommend using a basic linear pinch arrangement with clear quartz tubing. That way you can study the pinch, it’s instabilities, and not have to worry about the vessel becoming a problematic conductor. Additionally, you can also record the pinches with a high speed camera.

Tim Koeth has made several really nice demo systems with linear pinch. I’d suggest looking them up. Quite possible you’d enjoy something along those lines more than the complexities of what you’re proposing.

Mark Rowley

[Maciek Szymanski]

Thorello was a low density steady state device, not pulsed one. In Milano the solenoids were DC powered with a motor generator, but a decent 200 Ah lead-acid battery and thick coper cables should allow 20-30 minuets of continuous operation.

I recommend you to calculate the solenoids first - it will be an interesting trade-off study: how much kg of copper you need, will the coils volume fit on your torus and if it is possible to bend the required wire gauge on the required radius (for continuous operation at 200A you ned 8mm diameter coper wire, but if not 24/7 operated a bit more stress is possible).
Als consider if you want to wind all this by hand on the torus, or split the torus in two halves and slip on the pre made solenoids?

The original Thorello paper:
https://sci-hub.se/10.1007/BF02453271

(Note to admins - if use of Sci-hub is prohibited on the site please note me and I will remove the link).

And the search for "thorello plasma" with Google Scholar gives more than 200 papers:
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?star ... as_sdt=0,5

[Mark Rowley]

Interesting concept but still many degrees of complexity higher than that of a fusor.

For plasma study (which is the common goal of a demo device), a clear linear pinch tube is the way to go... for study and financially.

Tim Koeth’s linear pinch demo device:
http://www.nuclearphysicslab.com/npl/np ... ear-pinch/

Mark Rowley

[byron addams]

@Maciek Szymanski
thankyou so much for the information it has been reely difecult to information online. i cant thank you enough.

@Mark Rowley
i have been thinking of makeing a liniar pinch tube for a while but i dont have much rf equiptment at the moment. i have a lot of radio and audio equiptment that i could re pourpose but i would rather do it properly.

[Mark Rowley]

The materials needed for a sufficient “demo” RF plasma exciter is considerably less than what’s required for your original plan. In fact, the work necessary to construct what’s shown in the cad renderings would probably exceed that of a neutron producing 2.75” fusor. -food for thought-

Mark Rowley

[Mark Rowley]

And btw, repurposing amateur radio equipment for RF excitation systems IS the proper way. There’s no shortage of operational cyclotron systems that use Ameriton AL811 or AL800H linear amplifiers.

MR

[byron addams]

@Mark Rowley
i have just been looking at doble ended glass to CF and they are way too expensive for me at the moment. its gona be a long while untill i even fully start this project becauls i still need to do more research and im still working on my fusor at the moment.