Archived - First neutrons from worlds smallest Fusor!

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TannerOates
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Archived - First neutrons from worlds smallest Fusor!

Post by TannerOates » Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:47 am

Greetings once again! I am pleased to announce that I have detected neutrons being produced from my newest creation. My detector is a victoreen 488a and the nominal size of the reactor is 1 1/3". The setup I am running right now is temporary and will soon be much smaller. I am currently unaware at what pressure the main chamber was at due to the fact that I do not posses any gauge with that size flange. All details should be in the video link posted below, feel free to ask any questions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-A-uBkS ... map=%5B%5D


P.S. I will be posting photos of the build and characteristics of the reactor soon.

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Richard Hull
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Re: First neutrons from worlds smallest Fusor!

Post by Richard Hull » Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:43 pm

Nice video, but I have grave reservations. As before asked in another thread, where is the HV going in! A detailed view is needed. The Glassman you claim to be using has what looks like a BNC HV connector on it.....Maybe even an SHV BNC which will not classically support 45 kv. Most such glassmans have an larger specially adapted UHF connector (shell) system and even these usually go no higher than 30kv.

I was rather stunned to see the meter peg at max reading. Where was the CO2 ionization chamber located? Where is the moderator?

A lot of bizarre and uncharacteristic stuff here. No image of a fusion grid system which should be near its melting point at fusion input energies of 45kv, 7.5ma which is, supposedly, the claimed limit of your supply.

What is the grid made of? Where is a voltmeter/ammeter combo to show your input voltage and current?

If I might note my main objections. No real instrumenting of the input. No pressure gauge instrumenting visible. No images of the grid in action. No testing or great details on the neutron measurement/ moderation system. We see only a nice looking set up, a smallish supply with a BNC cable going down to the floor. We see a meter deflecting out of context. No entry point of the HV is highly evident. Way too much voltage claimed to be going into a tiny system with no input insulation visible or inner grid imaging.

A good video will show all of the things needed and full operational adjustment of metering, etc., with a confirming test like removing a moderator and the resultant change in neutron reading.

A neutron counter can count other things than neutrons, as we all know. To my jaundiced eyes, this looks like a rush to fusion to break a size record with zero backgrounding in operating a real or normal fusor while equipped with no suitable insturmentation beyond an ill-understood, untested, neutron counting system.

Please, my fellow fusioneers, chime in on this! I've got to see a good deal more detail before I vote this setup, regardless of the good looking vacuum system shown, into the neutron club. I am highly suspicious.


Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

RobertTubbs
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Re: First neutrons from worlds smallest Fusor!

Post by RobertTubbs » Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:04 pm

I really don't see any evidence for neutrons, or any real science for that matter.

To be fair, I don't think it's out of malice.

http://tanneroates.com/

The nature of the website pretty much explains the situation we find ourselves in now.

-RT

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Re: First neutrons from worlds smallest Fusor!

Post by RobertTubbs » Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:31 pm

Tanner,

I see you took down the website almost as fast as I linked it...

Don't worry, I've got a cache copy right here.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... =firefox-a

-RT
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Chris Bradley
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Re: First neutrons from worlds smallest Fusor!

Post by Chris Bradley » Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:02 pm

I do hope he achieves what he is attempting here, and we've not yet got a clear picture either way, but it bodes poorly that there was seemingly no discussion of some of the points raised in his first thread on this.

For my own 'non-fusor' experiments, the information on this forum is, obviously, limited in what it can teach me (or any new experimental form). But in a funny way, for me the forum has always acted as a rather useful 'touchstone' without anything even needing to be posted! By that I mean that I have reported so far that my kit produces no evidence of neutrons. In fact, I have had lots of interesting counts, bursts and other curious phenomena. But at the end of it all, I ask myself, " 'do I have enough that would convince 'fusor.net' ?", and I haven't so I know the evidence is too weak as to an effect worth reporting, and I look again to see if I was kidding myself.

There is nothing wrong with being hopeful and keen to get a result. That's good. But problems always seem to come around when questions are raised, but not addressed, in a response. It's a strength of the forum that it makes robust enquiries of experimental set-ups, not a weakness, and those attempting such work should value the questions posed of their work.

.... just my opinion ....

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Richard Hull
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Re: First neutrons from worlds smallest Fusor!

Post by Richard Hull » Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:06 pm

Michael, a recent claimant, put up a single video that clinched his proof as positive.
Note how he proves his claim in one simple flowing video action.
Short, sweet and proof beyond doubt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQr8kJ7H ... TA&index=1

Due to a couple of faked attempts to claim fusion, I put up a FAQ last year in an attempt to make clear what was demanded from a fusion claimant to be admitted to the neutron club. I think it is not overly difficult to adhere to. Most of us fusioneers kinda' know what to expect when fusion is real.

I just updated the FAQ to note how to proceed if you wish a video to be sufficient proof, however we still would like an additional writeup in Images du jour with full, detailed data and still images.

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=1125#p4032

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

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Carl Willis
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Re: First neutrons from worlds smallest Fusor!

Post by Carl Willis » Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:30 pm

Tanner,

Your system contains some very nice hardware. That vacuum pump is a real gem. And I think the Glassman ML-series 300W power supply has the chops for detectable fusion even though it is a compact design. From the standpoint of your resources, you are on track for neutrons.

But convincing evidence of neutrons involves more than just an observation that the meter moves on a neutron survey meter. X-rays and electronic noise are also potential signal sources. A standard experiment to rule out these sources is the "moderator removal experiment" (do a search in the archives). Alternative experiments may involve shielding the detector with lead to check for influence, or even replacing deuterium in your fusor with another non-fusion gas and operating at similar voltage and current conditions. I am not familiar with the Victoreen 488A, so I don't know what your best option might be, but moderator removal is usually pretty easy to do.

Richard was worried about your feedthrough and HV cable. I am not worried about the cable, since on close inspection of your video it appears to be standard RG-8. Granted, 50 kV is pretty much the top end for this cable, but I've used it myself and know that a special grade of it is often supplied by Glassman for use with their power supplies. What I am curious about is how you measure that voltage. I don't see a voltage divider in your video, nor do I see you using the bulkhead DB-15 (or whatever it is) on the Glassman to tap off its 0-10V output divider or its 0-10V current sense resistor. You should use those features. The control pot on the power supply tells you what you would like it to output, but not what voltage and current conditions actually are.

I would like to see a post describing your system in detail, and documenting it thoroughly with photos. That is pretty much the de facto standard for entering the Neutron Club. A YouTube video is a nice bonus and possibly fully sufficient, although your clips so far are really more like teasers than a comprehensive description.

Good work, and I hope to see more.

-Carl
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Re: First neutrons from worlds smallest Fusor!

Post by JakeJHecla » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:01 pm

This post carries all the hallmarks of fraud. The fact that Mr. Oates refuses to clarify how he's getting 50kV into the chamber combined with the conspicuously absent photo evidence for fusion makes this look too suspicious to be chalked up to a lack of experience. In addition, the website belonging to him linked above is downright bizarre, featuring claims of "fusion based weapons" research and "military solutions," which are surely fictional. It appears the original poster has some "splainin' to do" before anyone takes him seriously.

Edited: Didn't realize he was already a neutron club member.

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Carl Willis
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Re: First neutrons from worlds smallest Fusor!

Post by Carl Willis » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:20 pm

Well, I'm not yet inclined to call it fraud! That's a weighty accusation, one that carries its own burden of proof.

Entertain a simple alternative hypothesis: This is a high-school junior who has certain ambitions and ideas that look naive, maybe even preposterous, to those of us who are veteran realists on the forum. There you'd have an ordinary explanation for the website's excesses (and some other things that a couple people have found irksome). He ought to explain his gear in more detail, but that's hardly a venal sin.

Let's just not rush to judgement.

-Carl
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Rich Feldman
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Re: First neutrons from worlds smallest Fusor!

Post by Rich Feldman » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:41 pm

> an ordinary explanation for the website's excesses...

Tanner, please spell-check your copy before putting your website back online.

exauahst fueled fusion can be dismissed as a typographical error.

But devestating [sic] capabilities, and technological supiriority [sic], make you sound like a hick. Is English not your native language? If you are a 16 year old with some kind of learning disability, readers here will be more charitable if you own up to it. Or take simple steps to mitigate it. Good luck!

-Rich
All models are wrong; some models are useful. -- George Box

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