Neutron Club Application- Zan Chaudhry

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Richard Hull
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Re: Neutron Club Application- Zan Chaudhry

Post by Richard Hull » Tue Sep 20, 2016 3:42 am

Remember the key to it all related to neutron counts! You need make two equal timed readings....One with tube in moderator and then the tube out of moderator. Voltages and currents have to be proper for the count noted. 16 kv will not do much detectable fusion.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

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Zan_Chaudhry
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Re: Neutron Club Application- Zan Chaudhry

Post by Zan_Chaudhry » Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:49 am

But wait. I was not using the tube on this test. I was using a bubble dosimeter. And I also wasn't using 16kv, I was using 32.

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Kuba Anglin
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Re: Neutron Club Application- Zan Chaudhry

Post by Kuba Anglin » Tue Sep 20, 2016 5:00 pm

Your results look promising, but I would recommend organizing your data for clarity's sake.

Voltage:
Current:
Deuterium pressure:
Bubble dosimeter sensitivity:
Bubble dosimeter distance from ideal neutron source:
Bubbles generated:
Combined duration of testing:

Also, you should include a photo of the fusion plasma in your report. I would recommend trying to calculate your isotropic neutron emission rate. You said that you intend to operate your fusor soon. Keep all values as consistent as possible and document everything you can. Your evidence should be able to prove fusion beyond a reasonable doubt.

-Kuba
Last edited by Kuba Anglin on Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Neutron Club Application- Zan Chaudhry

Post by Richard Hull » Tue Sep 20, 2016 5:35 pm

Kuba is correct. Good data presentation in an orderly fashion is a must. Those of us how have done fusion....know fusion in a way that allows critical review. Critical review demands organized, critical and precise data collection and reporting and not a scatter of numbers blasted out on a page.

With a flawless operational 3He counter the ultimate test is the two count method. One count with the tube in moderator and another with the tube outside the moderator.

The 2 micron level is unbelievably low for a D2 pressure, but experience shows that at the rather high voltage and current you claim, minimal fusion is possible. I find it amazing that you attained a glow at those levels.

Try a good report and fill in these blanks

operational data:

1. period of operation from zero counts or zero bubbles to final count or final bubble talley.
2. average voltage of operation over above time span.
3. average current of operation over time span.
4. average deuterium pressure over time span
5. image of fusor grid taken during the run.
6. if using a counter. 1. 10 minute total background count 2. count with tube in moderator over a stated operational time and 3. another count with tube out of the moderator during operation over same period as #2 count.
7. images of the bubble dosimeter before and after count if such a device is used.

Overall, you have shown most of this over a vast number of postings. Try and do all of this in one single polished report posting.

Note data accumulated over 8 runs is not allowed. fitful starts and stops are not allowed. A single run may not be stable but should be continuous. It is from a single run that the data should be submitted. Do not submit a photo from a pretty photo run and voltage and current data from another run, pressure from another or a total bubble count from three consecutive runs.

For us, you must show that a normal run of your fusor has a good average voltage of X and a current of Y and a pressure of Z and a bubble count and all data taken of a single time period of T.

All fo this is spelled out in a FAQ on how to report for inclusion in claiming fusion.

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=3134&p=12644#p12644

Thanks

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

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Re: Neutron Club Application- Zan Chaudhry

Post by Kuba Anglin » Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:51 pm

The anomalous pressure reading is due to inaccuracies in your equipment. Like you, I used a CPS VG200 vacuum gauge for my fusor. After pumping with only the mechanical pump, the gauge read 0 microns. My mech pump is rated at an ultimate pressure of 12 microns. When that gauge reads 0 microns, the real pressure is likely around 15 microns. If you want an accurate pressure measurement, get a proper tc or ion gauge. The CPS gauge is meant for automotive work, not fusion reactors. I ended up using the CPS gauge anyway and simply used the generated voltage as a more accurate guide for the pressure in the chamber.

-Kuba

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Re: Neutron Club Application- Zan Chaudhry

Post by Richard Hull » Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:42 pm

Many fusion folks, over time, learn how to tell their instruments are lying or have gone astray. Much like Kuba points out, looking at the glow and looking at the applied voltage and current can really tell an advanced or advaning user that his or her vacuum reading is crap and force them to check their vacuum gauge for calibration or failure. The true newbie is at the mercy of poor instrumentation in many instances and will have to go to the school of hard-knocks before picking a lot of this up. One cannot over-emphasize the need for at least a TC gauge in the foreline. (Sadly, even this gauge can be off a bit at the extreme low end, but is is better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick and 50,000% better than a junky refrigeration gauge.)

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

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Re: Neutron Club Application- Zan Chaudhry

Post by Zan_Chaudhry » Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:15 am

I think I've got it all now:
1. 12 minute operation
2. 35kV average voltage
3. 24mA average current
4. 5-15 micron pressure (on my gauge)
5. I attached pictures of grid. Most of the time it was in the golden state.
6. I attached dosimeter images. (the bubbles are only in the top because my dosimeter slipped sideways during the test, aiming the top into the chamber at an angle, but it was under my lead shielding so I didn't notice.)
7. Dosimeter sensitivity: 73 bubbles per mrem
8. 6 inch dosimeter distance from neutron source
9. The bubbles cannot be counted because they formed a foam.
10. My x ray counts averaged around 40k cpm, with some moments over 70.
11. I added some pictures of the test setup.
Attachments
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IMG_3256.JPG
Dosimeter before testing
IMG_3240.JPG
Dosimeter after
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Dosimeter after
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Dosimeter after
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Dosimeter after
fusor6.jpg
fusor5.png
fusor4.png
fusor3.png
fusor2.jpg
fusor1.png
fusor.png

Scott Moroch
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Re: Neutron Club Application- Zan Chaudhry

Post by Scott Moroch » Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:14 am

Zan,

I like the way you presented your data however, I am slightly concerned about your BTI measurements. I am not an expert on Bubble dosimeters but those bubbles near the top do not appear as uniform and concise as they usually are/should be. Perhaps the quality of the image low. Did the BTI ever make contact with the chamber itself? During operation the chamber's temperature can rise significantly. The bti is sensitive to high temperature and can result in false bubbles. I have attached an image below of Bubbles I saw when I ran my fusor.


Also, regardless of the angle of the BTI, you would anticipate a relatively uniform distribution of bubbles in the BTI (generally speaking as the neutrons are emitted isotropically from the fusor.

Best of luck to you.

Scott Moroch
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image.jpeg
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Re: Neutron Club Application- Zan Chaudhry

Post by Richard Hull » Wed Sep 21, 2016 5:24 pm

Scott is correct. Rerun. We need to see formal bubble production that are clean and clear. 70 or more bubble per mrem is a very sensitive BTI! Those images do not resemble real fusion, either. Those in the know here, know. Sorry to be such a stickler, but proof is proof and we need it.

I attach images of my setup when I used the BTI and a black and white image of real-time fusion from my video camera on the monitor screen.

Note** the BTI is very sensitive to heat! Mount it where vertical convection heat from the fusor cannot warm it!

Richard Hull
Attachments
MVC-015F.JPG
How I mounted my BTI to avoid heating
MVC-008F.JPG
Fusor IV doing fusion at 500,000 n/s in 2009
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

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Zan_Chaudhry
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Re: Neutron Club Application- Zan Chaudhry

Post by Zan_Chaudhry » Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:31 pm

Okay, I've got a rerun.
1. 10 minute operation.
2. 24-35kV voltage. (lots of variance, mainly in the mid 20kV's)
3. 40 to 60 mA (I actually blew my variac's fuse at the end).
4. 10 micron pressure
5. Grid picture attached.
6. Dosimeter pictures attached.
7. 73 b/mrem sensitivity
8. 8 inch dosimeter distance from ideal neutron source.
9. 7 bubbles
10. Really high x ray counts, in the couple hundred k cpm. I attached an image actually.
Attachments
Screenshot_20160921-175858.png
High x ray counts
IMG_3266.PNG
2016-09-21.png
Shows gap between dosimeter and chamber wall
IMG_3271.JPG
Dosimeter after
IMG_3264.JPG
Dosimeter before

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