NIF.. "new hurdles" reported...

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Chris Bradley
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NIF.. "new hurdles" reported...

Post by Chris Bradley » Sat Jun 25, 2011 9:57 am

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/24/us/24bclivermore.html


>But the $3.5 billion ignition facility, derided by some critics as taxpayer-financed science fiction, is running into new challenges that may further delay and perhaps scuttle its goal.
>Among those challenges is the unanticipated presence of particles that clog filters designed to prevent the escape of radioactive material. Officials have proposed bypassing the filters for some experiments and venting radioactive particles directly into the air.


...


>Tri-Valley CAREs, a watchdog group that monitors Lawrence Livermore, argues that the National Nuclear Security Agency, which financed construction of the facility, should not allow an increase in the amount of radiation produced by the fusion project.
>“There is no safe level of exposure,” said Marylia Kelley, the group’s executive director.


(I think we've had that discussion before!!)

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Frank Sanns
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Re: NIF.. "new hurdles" reported...

Post by Frank Sanns » Sat Jun 25, 2011 4:19 pm

From the statements in the article it sounds to me like they are using heavier nuclei and some that are not radioactive and do not produce radioactive waste. A few candidates come to mind. Interesting but not totally surprising.

Frank Sanns



"But the tritium is proving difficult to manage. The molecules are so small that other tiny atoms are also captured in the filters. Workers frequently enter the experiment chamber to change the clogged filters.

More controversially, the officials have proposed bypassing the filters during some experiments and venting tritium through an exhaust system into the air."

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Doug Coulter
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Re: NIF.. "new hurdles" reported...

Post by Doug Coulter » Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:44 pm

I'd just say give one of those nuke-o-phobes the most sensitive detector they want and let them sit outside and see if they can actually see it. Even if that thing works, it's not going to be very much T at all.

Even suppose it was a liter or a couple -- it's hydrogen, it's going straight up. We've found it challenging to even measure the junk with those low energy betas (13kv and on down) being all there is to work with. And unless you burn it into water, it's not going into a human to stay.

It takes a hyper-thin window counter to even see energy down that low. Here, only one specialized for that by the manuf, and one extremely thin window NaI can even see it, concentrated and in bulk.

Someone should have just kept their mouth shut. It's just ignorant to rile the paranoid for no good reason. Wait till you're not crying wolf, gheez.
Why guess when you can know? Measure!

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Steven Sesselmann
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Re: NIF.. "new hurdles" reported...

Post by Steven Sesselmann » Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:47 am

Another misguided fusion project...

Can't wait for all those great parts turning up on ebay

Steven
http://www.gammaspectacular.com - Gamma Spectrometry Systems
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Steven_Sesselmann - Various papers and patents on RG

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Re: NIF.. "new hurdles" reported...

Post by Chris Trent » Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:56 pm

I seem to recall reading that there have already been enough lasing crystal failures at NIF that a couple of the engineers have actually begun using the coffee table sized blocks of doped glass for, well... coffee tables. I don't know what that would run on ebay, but I want one.

The reference eludes me at the moment, but if I run across it again I will post.

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Re: NIF.. "new hurdles" reported...

Post by DaveC » Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:58 pm

The true "problem" here is the National-Lab-Speak that's being reported by news biz.

I expect the correctly reported statements to be somewhat different.

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Re: NIF.. "new hurdles" reported...

Post by Edward Miller » Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:48 pm

They actually send a lot of the used parts to universities where they get used on other laser projects.

The Livermore wines do actually have higher than normal trace amounts of tritium.
http://lpc1.clpccd.cc.ca.us/lpc/express ... iation.htm

It's nothing compared to the amounts of natural uranium released by coal power plants.

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Richard Hull
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Re: NIF.. "new hurdles" reported...

Post by Richard Hull » Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:02 pm

The "147,000 curies of tritium per liter of rain water" tells me all I need to know about the veracity of the piece.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

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Frank Sanns
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Re: NIF.. "new hurdles" reported...

Post by Frank Sanns » Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:11 pm

I think the illustrative gentleman forgot the word pico or more likely he did not know the difference.

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Re: NIF.. "new hurdles" reported...

Post by Edward Miller » Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:19 pm

Here's a better report on the Livermore Tritium Wine thing.
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/hac/pha/PHA.asp?docid=35&pg=3

Also in 2007 they reorganized the lab structure so it's run by LLNS (no the UC like before).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_L ... Laboratory

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