Rotating Ions to create both high density and high velocity

This forum is for other possible methods for fusion such as Sonolumenescense, Cold Fusion, CANR/LENR or accelerator fusion. It should contain all theory, discussions and even construction and URLs related to "other than fusor, fusion".
Post Reply
MD1994
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:55 pm
Real name:
Contact:

Rotating Ions to create both high density and high velocity

Post by MD1994 » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:31 pm

I was wondering if I could rotate ions at a fast enough rate then wouldn't they also have high density. Then this will create fusion. I think if I rotate a cathode in the middle of the spherical vacuum I could get the ions to rotate as well. I'm thinking that only a small portion maybe of a rod should be negatively to charged to attract the positively charged atoms to it. However they will never touch the rod because it will be rotating to fast just like the satellites that rotate around the earth. If those satellites start to slow down they'll eventually fall to the surface of the earth, but if they keep on moving fast enough then eventhough the gravity of the earth is acctracting them they'll never fall to it's surface. This is just a thought I had and I couldn't find anything in the search about this so I was wandering if this could be done and I just want to see what others think about this. I think that the rpm of the rod would have to be very fast. However since only a small portion of the rod is charged the orbit would not be perfect all the ions would be chasing after that part and as more rods are accelerated into the center of the vacuum due to a positive charge on the walls of the vacuum they would start to collide with the already orbiting particles.

Chris Trent
Posts: 291
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:24 pm
Real name:

Re: Rotating Ions to create both high density and high velocity

Post by Chris Trent » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:15 pm

The particles in fusor can be moving at millions of meters per second. It's not practical to physically spin an electrode that fast.

Google Cyclotron. That can create the kind of circulation that you seem to be looking for. In some configurations it can even do some fusion. I believe that one or two have been built around here somewhere.

MD1994
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:55 pm
Real name:
Contact:

Re: Rotating Ions to create both high density and high velocity

Post by MD1994 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:13 am

To make the spinning at the center I was thinking of using an Electromechanical Battery that can rotate at 60,000 to 120,000 rpm. I not sure if that would be fast enough because if its not then the only other thing thats faster is a turbocharger. If there is a constant flow of ions into the chamber than the ions that are orbiting the should collide with the new ions that are accelerating towards the center because of a postive charge on the walls of the chamber.

User avatar
Chris Bradley
Posts: 2931
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 11:05 am
Real name:

Re: Rotating Ions to create both high density and high velocity

Post by Chris Bradley » Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:16 am

Manuel,

As I mentined before - *use the 'search' term*.

You say you could find nothing. What search terms did you use?

I just tried two search terms; 'rotating ions' and 'rotation ions' in this theory forum, and got up several relevant titles. Go read those and add to those threads. Try it in the other forums and you might find even more interesting things...

Richard Hester
Posts: 1458
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2001 4:07 am
Real name:

Re: Rotating Ions to create both high density and high velocity

Post by Richard Hester » Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:02 am

Just about anything that can be thought of has been done/tried. A useful book detailing a lot of these schemes (including an earlier inertial-electrostatic setup) is Glasstone's book "Controlled Thermonuclear Fusion". It's dated 1960, but details most of the early efforts before the Tokamak reared its ugly head. It also has some good chapters on plasmas and diagnostics. A rotating plasma scheme is described (the Ixion project). Another interesting and similar scheme is the ion magnetron, also mentioned. The book is worth every penny as a basic reference and a catalog of early fusion experiments. DCX also gets a good description...

MD1994
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:55 pm
Real name:
Contact:

Re: Rotating Ions to create both high density and high velocity

Post by MD1994 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:43 pm

What if I do a setup where there are two different cathodes and they both rotate while the ions won't hit the chamber walls because they are also negatively charged. So there would be to orbits and one of them would be vertical while the other ion orbit will be horizontal won't they clash at a point and at that point won't there be fusion. Heres an extremely rough sketch of what I trying to say.
Attachments
Fusions Rotating Ions in two Cathodes.JPG
Fusions Rotating Ions in two Cathodes.JPG (36.79 KiB) Viewed 3368 times

User avatar
Chris Bradley
Posts: 2931
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 11:05 am
Real name:

Re: Rotating Ions to create both high density and high velocity

Post by Chris Bradley » Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:57 pm

What effect does spinning the electrodes have?

Draw out the electric field lines for a few sample angles of the electrode rotation angles, and it will be easier for us all to see what you mean.

I note that you have not clarified what your search terms were, in which you say you found nothing. I am interested, because I found it quite difficult to find nothing. Using the search term "rotating ions" just now, I note a title of a post "spinning the grid";

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2405#p11915

Maybe you could just add to that?

MD1994
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:55 pm
Real name:
Contact:

Re: Rotating Ions to create both high density and high velocity

Post by MD1994 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:03 pm

Sorry I just couldn't find what I was looking for exactly yes there were somethings about ions rotating, but it wasn't what I was looking for. But don't worry I guess next time I'll just post something over there instead of here. I didn't to cause so much trouble I'm just curious if this has ever been done. I'll post something later with a good picture and clearer information so that all of you can know what I talking about.

User avatar
Chris Bradley
Posts: 2931
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 11:05 am
Real name:

Re: Rotating Ions to create both high density and high velocity

Post by Chris Bradley » Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:21 pm

I'll look forward to it. I'm not trying to suggest that what you want to discuss has definitely come up here before, but there is a lot of information here to start off with and is worth making sure (and showing that) you are familiar with the previous discussions.

Edward Miller
Posts: 266
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2003 8:50 am
Real name: Edward Miller
Contact:

Re: Rotating Ions to create both high density and high velocity

Post by Edward Miller » Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:03 am

As Richard pointed out, the idea has merit, it's just been tried by someone else before. The other part of the responses conveyed the idea that a mechanically rotating system will never be as fast or as powerful as electromagnetic rotation.

Keep having new ideas and let them bake for a little bit. Search around the books and web to see if anyone has come up with something similar. Nobody can really tell you if something will work or be amazingly efficient. The fusion puzzle is very hard and a lot of smart people have spent their lives trying to solve it.

IMHO the Fusor group is designed around people exchanging ideas to get a working Fusor going. Any other magic you want to do outside of that requires your own time and energy. Occasionally if you have a very detailed and relevant question or technique you'll get feedback on it. In the end you have to test it yourself to really know if it's valid. Reading about someone else's failed experiment can save you a lot of money and heartache.

Post Reply