A new fusion vacuum tube concept.

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EGPreston
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A new fusion vacuum tube concept.

Post by EGPreston »

I have posted a concept for a new type of vacuum tube that utilitzes ideas from hot and cold fusion. See my web page http://EGPreston.com for more info. I will also try to attach the paper to this e-mail. Please feel free to experiment if you have the lab equipment to build such a device. Let us know what you learn from the experiment if you do set it up. I may go for a grant when I get the time to put a proposal and team together but right now I am too busy teaching and consulting for the power industry....Gene Preston
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Javier Lopez
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Re: A new fusion vacuum tube concept.

Post by Javier Lopez »

I think that you must be care that be D+ going to - side that e- goes to opposite direction.
I think, it is easier that metal plate reacts with deuterium, melt, vaporize or atomize before fusion of D, I think carbide steel is like butter when triying fusing deuterium.
Su centre is at 15 million ºK and 3e11 atmospheres and onli fuses a little part of it (fortunately, if all being fused we instantly would die)
Wilfried Heil
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Re: A new fusion vacuum tube concept.

Post by Wilfried Heil »

Hello Eugene, I just want to comment on the possible patent issue and not on the feasibility of your design:

You must patent your ideas before you publish them, as otherwise they will not be considered new, because of your own prior disclosure and will no longer be patentable. On the other hand, as long as you have something new, regardless of whether it is practical or not, you can get a patent on it.
EGPreston
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Re: A new fusion vacuum tube concept.

Post by EGPreston »

The plate would emit electrons if hot AND has an electric field near the surface that pulls electrons off the surface. However, we can insert another grid closer to the plate that reduces the electric field to zero at the plate so that only the momentum of the D carry the them to the plate. Also, think of the D as low energy. Remember we are trying to exploit the cold fusion idea but not in a liquid environment.

This idea only works if there is a D resonance mechanism that allows the surrounding metal to remain relatively cold while the D vibrate with substanital amplitudes. Is this possible? I do not know. Is there an expert in the group that knows about D modes of mechanical vibration of D in metals? All metals? I doubt it.

Thanks for the suggestions.
EGPreston
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Re: A new fusion vacuum tube concept.

Post by EGPreston »

I have thought about the patent. I decided to fogo the patent rights so that ideas can be shared more openly. All I was saying by the patent statement is that if this thing actually works, the first group to get it to work will probably have the patent rights for their device. All I want out of this is a footnote that I posted the basic concept on March 10, 2006. I hope someone does set up the experiment and make discoveries. We will all benefit if discoveries are made.

Thanks for your comments.
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Javier Lopez
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Re: A new fusion vacuum tube concept.

Post by Javier Lopez »

1. If you cancels the field D will not see it.
You have to send deuterium gas ionized, then atract by a first little field (2kV) and then apply a bigger one. You have an example at: http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/australi ... rough_9794

2. If you work at an electric company, perhaps you know how to swith >1Megavolt and >1Megaamp in less than 1ms. It could solve me a big problem

3. You speak about cold fusion, so I supose plate is paladium

4. I would like know also what is the RF absortion figure of deuterium and also Tritium. If I found it before I will post it here.


Re:
The plate would emit electrons if hot AND has an electric field near the surface that pulls electrons off the surface. However, we can insert another grid closer to the plate that reduces the electric field to zero at the plate so that only the momentum of the D carry the them to the plate
GMacDonald
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Re: A new fusion vacuum tube concept.

Post by GMacDonald »

Its great to see so many people in this form trying to crack the
problem of practical Fusion . I know there are some in this form
that think it’s a fools errand , but I am not one of them .

Just a thought … would this process improve if it was configured to use the principle of the Farnsworth Fusor to concentrate at the centre ?

Being new to the Farnsworth Fusor , I find it absolutely amazing ! that it It will focus at the centre , no matter how
poor the construction tolerance of the wire grids .

As a good amateur scientist , first we propose an idea ( I think the easy part ) then we need an experiment to prove or disprove the original theory . It should be designed to be repeatable , easy to manufacture and inexpensive.

I think this is the best part ….the experiment

DG MacDonald
DaveC
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Re: A new fusion vacuum tube concept.

Post by DaveC »

I think the basic idea of embedding D (ions?) in a metal substrate by bombardment, has seen the light of day in this forum on more than one occasion, and I seem to recall it being reported here, as being done elsewhere, with some slight success. Probably can find the threads here, by a search on some of the key words.

Just a couple of practical points to consider: If you are considering a bare metal plate, keep in mind most of the metals commonly used for electrical conduction have high work functions (typically above 4.5 eV ) which means very large fields to obtain any significant electron current at room temperatures, and very high temperatures (above 2000K) to get almost any amount of thermionic emission.

But the apparatus is not particularly difficult to build.

First some theory, then a good experiment or two or ....??

Dave Cooper
EGPreston
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Re: A new fusion vacuum tube concept.

Post by EGPreston »

Hi Dave,
The high ev for electron emission from metals is good. We need to operate the plate temperature just below the level where electrons will be emitted. Any estimate what temperature that would be, assuming the E field is at a low value near the surface of the plate? On the emitter, there are probably several ways to get the D to be emitted, and Javier gave us a link to a site where that has been done.

I was talking with friends at the Univ of TX the other day about the need to be able to excite a natural resonant frequency of the D so as to impart more energy to the D in a non-brute force way. The tube idea was my attempt to get control over that excitation process for D in metals. I have assumed that D will have some resonance in the metal. All that is needed to have resonance is the mass of the D nuclei and forces that restrain it while it is inside the metal. We surely have both of those so we surely must have resonance.

Thanks for your thoughts.
http://EGPreston.com
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Steven Sesselmann
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Re: A new fusion vacuum tube concept.

Post by Steven Sesselmann »

This idea of an inside out fusor looks similar to the idea of Ka-Ngo Leung
at Berkeley. Effectively inverting the regular Fusor concept, and
bombarding the outside shell with Deuterons and Tritium nuclei.

http://physicsweb.org/articles/news/5/11/14/1

Steven
http://www.gammaspectacular.com - Gamma Spectrometry Systems
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Steven_Sesselmann - Various papers and patents on RG
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Donald McKinley
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Re: A new fusion vacuum tube concept.

Post by Donald McKinley »

Eugene,

Regarding you comment:

>This idea only works if there is a D resonance mechanism that
>allows the surrounding metal to remain relatively cold while the D
>vibrate with substantial amplitudes. Is this possible? I do not know.
>Is there an expert in the group that knows about D modes of
>mechanical vibration of D in metals? All metals? I doubt it.


I like your comment about the vibration modes. I think that this is the right direction. When I did a calculation about the vibration rate of deuterium, I came up with the figure of 1,500,000 GHz for a single D atom. That’s right 1.5e6 Ghz. I probably left out a dump truck load of decimal points somewhere. The frequency is the frequency which corresponds to the de Broglie wavelength of Deuterium. I still think that's the right track. I think you will be forced to take the vibration modes into account if you will be successful


Don
DaveC
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Re: A new fusion vacuum tube concept.

Post by DaveC »

Don - not sure what happens to the deBroglie wavelength of D when it is embedded (as distinct from adsorbed) in a metal electrode.

I do remember, years ago, a line of work being done on "transition resonances" as a way to explain how "cold fusion" might work. Never heard what became of that concept.

Eugene - Temperatures for significant electron emission depend intensely on the local work function of the metal. The local work function is extremely sensitive to the condition of the surface, whether oxidized, covered with another element, etc.

For pure metals, the Richardson -Dushman equation gives order of magnitude correct indications of current densities one might expect at a given temperature and work function.
The basic equation is as follows:

J = 60.2(T^2)*exp(-W/KT) amperes per square cm.

T is temperature in Kelvins, W is work function, K is the Boltzman constant. Note that work function W and Boltzman constant K need to be in the same units (either eV or joules).
For W in electron volts eV, then K is 0.863x10^-4 volts/deg. K.


For Tungsten (W=4.25 -4.50 eV) thermionic emission is about 0.75 uA/cm^2 at 1500 K, 4.9 mA/cm^2 at 2000 K, and about 1A/cm^2 at 2500 K. This is about 6 orders of magnitude change in current density, for a 60% change in temperature.

For neglible electron emission you would want to be below 1500 C. And of course, use these numbers for comparision, actual emission probably will differ.

Has anyone produced a "reasonable" estimate of the packing density that might be expected with such a concept? It seems to me that the D atoms must be rather close together for any sort of vibrational resonance to enhance their probability of fusing.

Final point on synchronized emission of ions, you need to do some calcs here to see what the time resolution needs to be for a "wave" of ions to arrive in step with vibrational resonance of the D atom in the metal lattice. If Donald's calculation of 1,500 THz is order of magnitude correct, I see no hope of a thermionic emitter, gated or otherwise, being able to synchronize at these freqs. You would be looking for an optically modulated thermal emitter. I think getting even to pico second coherence is very tough, let along femtosec.

Dave Cooper
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Donald McKinley
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Re: A new fusion vacuum tube concept.

Post by Donald McKinley »

For this particular idea, I would suggest selecting an element with which D has a low integer harmonic in common, and forming the substrate from this material. That way the harmonics could possibly be tuned for positive reinforcement.

It doesn't need to be solid either, you could shoot the two at each other, tune em around a bit and see what happens. Easier said than done though.

It's a definite idea anyway.

Don
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Javier Lopez
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Re: A new fusion vacuum tube concept.

Post by Javier Lopez »

1500THz corresponds to 200nm that may be UltraViolet optical band: it may be true because exists commercial UV Deuterium lamps.
If you speak about High Voltage, selfresonant and 200nm, you are triying to make an Ultraviolet LASER. But also pretend that the laser be a fusor itself: it may ba a "UV laser-fusor"
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Re: A new fusion vacuum tube concept.

Post by EGPreston »

Thanks for all the great comments and references. There are likely many more resonant modes than the D particle's self resonance. I was thinking of the molecule to molecule simple electric field restoration forces, like a spring constant, and then the D mass with that would make frequencies much lower than Thz freqs or at least that is my intution. I would think that if two modes of resonance are needed, then each could be excited at the same time. One might be a low frequency mechanical vibration and the other one the deBroglie wavelength, or something else...?
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Javier Lopez
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Re: A new fusion vacuum tube concept.

Post by Javier Lopez »

The molecule frequency is greater. As example the Deuterium Fluoride laser frec 3.8um, that is because the molecule is bigger than the atom.
The deuterium and tritium spectrum are very similar to hydrogen ones because having the same atomic number Z=1
But if you look for a nucleus resonance frequency must be much bigger because tha nucleus radii is very little compared to atom ones. So it depend what matter you pretend to excite.
Starfire
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Re: A new fusion vacuum tube concept.

Post by Starfire »

Where to find the deuterium and tritium spectrum on line?
DaveC
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Re: A new fusion vacuum tube concept.

Post by DaveC »

Be careful about which resonances you ,mean. Photon emission comes from electron shell energy shifts and relaxations, not from nucleic movements.

The electron shell energies, in low Z materials, are rather low, far below those needed for fusion.

I am doubtful if core resonances are easily achieved.

Dave Cooper
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Re: A new fusion vacuum tube concept.

Post by GMacDonald »

Femtosec control issues , metallurgical issues , density issues core resonances issues

…back to electro static inertial confinement for me .

By the way …I had to look up what a Femtosec was 10 ^ -15 wow

DG MacDonald
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Donald McKinley
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Re: A new fusion vacuum tube concept.

Post by Donald McKinley »

Eugene,

Think about this. Every fundamental frequency has an harmonic series. In the case of deuterium at rest there is one harmonic series, in motion the atom has a different, offset harmonic series. Taking into account the reaction which produces the neutron, adjust the speeds of the two deuteriums so that you get a beatwave of the exact energy of neutron that we know the reaction produces. I have an idea that that approach will increase the neutron output substantially no matter how it is done.

The difference in speeds is a small one but is very important. If you take one atom as at rest, calculate the other atom as being in motion.

If there are three atoms (two deuteriums and a latice atom) the latice atom will serve as an oscillator. Select your latice material according to what oscillation you need in order to liberate the neutron. The frequency difference needs to add up to the frequency of the neutron at the speed that we know the neutron wants to have. (however many Mev the fusion neutron has 2 or 3 or whatever it is I don't remember now).

I would imagine, perhaps wrongly, that you may be able to calculate the effect of the latice by just treating it as an oscillator with whatever its de broglie rest frequency is. Calculate the frequency of the neutron that you want (the one that is always produced) and adjust the energies so that these harmonics are maintained.

If you don't get it with just one calculation, don't neglect that there may be more than one step to the process with an intermediate particle. Perhaps the deuterons breifly exist as a single much heavier particle before the neutron is ejected, and the harmonic calculations would need another step with the new frequency and speed etc.

Don
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Javier Lopez
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Re: A new fusion vacuum tube concept.

Post by Javier Lopez »

Deuterium and Tritium spectrum is veryvery similar to hydrogen ones.

But I agree that are too weak energies.

Somebody is looking for low frecuencies:

You can have resonance frequencies in the MHz range by cutting a crystal made of D
EGPreston
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Re: A new fusion vacuum tube concept.

Post by EGPreston »

Dave, your observation that the nuclei will be difficult to excite is a good observation. That is why I thought it would be best to try that excitation by modulating the D that are being injected into the metal plate. D hitting D at the right frequency should create the greatest amount of D mechanical movement within the metal. This mechanical oscillation of D would be equivalent to an increase in the D energies (temperature) and hopefully without a fast transfer of that energy to the surrounding metal. This concept suggests that the plate voltage will probably need to be much lower than the 50kV for fusor tube. We will want the D entering the metal plate to have a minimum amount of energy that is needed to cause movement of the D already within the metal. We have to think cold fusion ideas here rather than the usual hot fusion concepts. The only way to know for sure what will happen is to conduct experiments.
EGPreston
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Re: A new fusion vacuum tube concept.

Post by EGPreston »

Thanks Don. I would like to hear ideas on how to detect the motion of the D within the metal. E fields might be present only at the surface. M fields would only detect a large group of D all moving in unison. What about attaching a crystal to the plate to listen to the mechanical vibrations? A crystal "microphone" would be limited to rather low frequencies, maybe up to a few MHz. Somehow we have to be able to detect and amplify the D modes of oscillation. Any ideas on this? Can we "see" the movement with X rays?
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