Harold - take your device to the nearest college or University that has an electronics lab. If you invest a little time ingetting your measurements done correctly, you will see, that this part of "Science" is not really faith, but careful, cautious, methodical testing. One forms a theory or premise partly in the belief that the evidence leads that direction. He then (if he is a good scientist) carefully tests his theory and tries every possible wasy to disprove it. Only when he fails to prove it wrong or explain by prior concepts, does he tentatively offer the results for others to consider.
Do the scope measurements as we have suggested, and you will see what we are talking about. Digital and Analog meters can be very misleading in what they present. Comparing peak derived average or RMS data with DC average data in even a simple 1/2 wave diode rectifier circuit feeding a load, will produce similar results to yours. And those numbers are wrong. I have taught electronics for years, at Jr. College level and this is one of the pitfalls of instrumentation that we train the students to avoid.
Dave Cooper
Argon Tube Power Source
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Alex Aitken
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- Real name:
Re: Argon Tube Power Source
The answer is very very simple. If you are getting 450% over unity, then power your input from your output.
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Richard Hull
- Moderator
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Re: Argon Tube Power Source
Marvin, you know they will never do this! It would be far to telling! It would burst a bubble so important to the needful. The needful of hope, of a brighter future, of a faith in man's power over his environment and ultimately over even the laws of nature.
We are, indeed, the smallest of mighty things.
Richard Hull
We are, indeed, the smallest of mighty things.
Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Re: Argon Tube Power Source
or in Irish - ' Mighty Small '
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Alex Aitken
- Posts: 250
- Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2003 5:33 am
- Real name:
Re: Argon Tube Power Source
Richard,
I'm sure youve seen the pattern before, from the tentative "I think Ive discovered a new power source, I can generate small excess power according to my calculations from these measurements" which gets a cynical response and quickly changes to "My calculations show massive amounts of excess power from these brand new measurements" and which quickly deterriorates to paranoia and conspiricy theory psychosis "You are all trying to supress these results to protect your precious science/Oil profits", go away angry that noone will help them make the one bit of kit they can't design themselves - the 'trivial' part that converts the output power produced into a form compatable with the input. In this case thats not really hard. Any EE could make a convertor efficiant enough to fufil the given voltage/current specs, trouble is his criteria for a working convertor is that it produces perpetual energy when combined with his circuit not that it actually converts the voltages he says he needs efficiantly. Hows about that, you build an arc circuit that magically creates excess power, violating the first rule of thermodyanics, and in the same attempt you manage to make a convertor that destroys more energy than you can make also violating the first law!
I love the way that creating 50% excess energy might be seen as weak proof that his system is overunity, but that he can show us numbers that produce 450% excess energy which he thinks makes his case stronger. I also love the way that a system that makes energy out of nothing seems less plausable than a system that boosts a primary input power. Ive also seen people do the math for running heaters based on the input coming from mains, completely oblivious to the concept that if the output really is more then you can run the input from the output and the power is therefore 100% free.
175V step up is pretty easy, not like the homopolar generator crowd. They have maybe half a volt (Its been a long time since I argued with one of these types and I can't say I miss it much) at thousands of amps and they cant figure out how to use that to run the high power mains motor. Stepping up half a volt at that sort of current must give EE's screaming nightmares.
Maybe there's a moral in all of this. People that expect something for nothing deserve everything they get.
I'm sure youve seen the pattern before, from the tentative "I think Ive discovered a new power source, I can generate small excess power according to my calculations from these measurements" which gets a cynical response and quickly changes to "My calculations show massive amounts of excess power from these brand new measurements" and which quickly deterriorates to paranoia and conspiricy theory psychosis "You are all trying to supress these results to protect your precious science/Oil profits", go away angry that noone will help them make the one bit of kit they can't design themselves - the 'trivial' part that converts the output power produced into a form compatable with the input. In this case thats not really hard. Any EE could make a convertor efficiant enough to fufil the given voltage/current specs, trouble is his criteria for a working convertor is that it produces perpetual energy when combined with his circuit not that it actually converts the voltages he says he needs efficiantly. Hows about that, you build an arc circuit that magically creates excess power, violating the first rule of thermodyanics, and in the same attempt you manage to make a convertor that destroys more energy than you can make also violating the first law!
I love the way that creating 50% excess energy might be seen as weak proof that his system is overunity, but that he can show us numbers that produce 450% excess energy which he thinks makes his case stronger. I also love the way that a system that makes energy out of nothing seems less plausable than a system that boosts a primary input power. Ive also seen people do the math for running heaters based on the input coming from mains, completely oblivious to the concept that if the output really is more then you can run the input from the output and the power is therefore 100% free.
175V step up is pretty easy, not like the homopolar generator crowd. They have maybe half a volt (Its been a long time since I argued with one of these types and I can't say I miss it much) at thousands of amps and they cant figure out how to use that to run the high power mains motor. Stepping up half a volt at that sort of current must give EE's screaming nightmares.
Maybe there's a moral in all of this. People that expect something for nothing deserve everything they get.
Re: Argon Tube Power Source
Hi folks:
Same old dance ... Same ole results resonate tanks don't generate any thing extra. 40 years and counting!
Happy Fusoring!
Larry Leins
Fusor Tech
Same old dance ... Same ole results resonate tanks don't generate any thing extra. 40 years and counting!
Happy Fusoring!
Larry Leins
Fusor Tech
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Richard Hull
- Moderator
- Posts: 15037
- Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 9:44 am
- Real name: Richard Hull
Re: Argon Tube Power Source
You guys gotta' admit though,.... It is easy to get into the new energy biz! A few basic circuit components, two or three papers off the web telling you how to do it and you are off the the races.
I have poked around in and amoungst the new energy folks for about 30 years, (never actaully being one myself), all the while, calmly listening and absorbing.
The common thread is that "THIS NEW THING!!!" will blaze onto the scene like a brilliant comet and the energy of the masses assembled will rise to a near fever pitch within the community and far more quietly....almost with a whimper, ebb.
Two years later, you go back to the idea's most vociferous proponents and inquire of it. You are told, "OH yeah, I heard they lost their funding".......or........." I think that guy's device and patents was sold to a japanese company"..........."BUT...HEY! YOU GOTTA' SEE THIS NEW THING"........."It is way better and much easier to make than that other device........
Sound familiar? Sound a bit like the fusion mantra? We are only being asked to standby for the latest break through.......
The above is the recurrent theme throughout the new energy community and crowd.
The "Grey Motor" was a big deal in the late 60's and early 70's, but it died the natural death it deserved then. Now, there is a fresh resurgence of adherents and tinkerers out there looking at the Grey Motor again. So, within the community, if there is a lull, they can always have a re-vival based on old time religion to hold onto and re-energize the faithful.
These are my own personal observations and come from a rather jaded and jaundiced, watching eye, but a listening pair of ears coupled to an ever slowing mental faculty.
There is absolutely no difference between these new energy guys and the normal fusion community involved with ITER, NIF or any of the other systems save that the latter have cache', training, funding, knowledge and public acceptability via media hype. Everybody is spinning their wheels and plucking our nerves. One group is accepted, the other not.
Richard Hull
I have poked around in and amoungst the new energy folks for about 30 years, (never actaully being one myself), all the while, calmly listening and absorbing.
The common thread is that "THIS NEW THING!!!" will blaze onto the scene like a brilliant comet and the energy of the masses assembled will rise to a near fever pitch within the community and far more quietly....almost with a whimper, ebb.
Two years later, you go back to the idea's most vociferous proponents and inquire of it. You are told, "OH yeah, I heard they lost their funding".......or........." I think that guy's device and patents was sold to a japanese company"..........."BUT...HEY! YOU GOTTA' SEE THIS NEW THING"........."It is way better and much easier to make than that other device........
Sound familiar? Sound a bit like the fusion mantra? We are only being asked to standby for the latest break through.......
The above is the recurrent theme throughout the new energy community and crowd.
The "Grey Motor" was a big deal in the late 60's and early 70's, but it died the natural death it deserved then. Now, there is a fresh resurgence of adherents and tinkerers out there looking at the Grey Motor again. So, within the community, if there is a lull, they can always have a re-vival based on old time religion to hold onto and re-energize the faithful.
These are my own personal observations and come from a rather jaded and jaundiced, watching eye, but a listening pair of ears coupled to an ever slowing mental faculty.
There is absolutely no difference between these new energy guys and the normal fusion community involved with ITER, NIF or any of the other systems save that the latter have cache', training, funding, knowledge and public acceptability via media hype. Everybody is spinning their wheels and plucking our nerves. One group is accepted, the other not.
Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment