Is this a possible way to generate energy by fusor?

This forum is for other possible methods for fusion such as Sonolumenescense, Cold Fusion, CANR/LENR or accelerator fusion. It should contain all theory, discussions and even construction and URLs related to "other than fusor, fusion".
Post Reply
Jiashen Chen
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:59 pm
Real name: Jiashen Chen

Is this a possible way to generate energy by fusor?

Post by Jiashen Chen »

Several pipes are filled with water circulates, is heated by plasma at the grid, and turns into steam to propel the turbine,so it generate energy?
Attachments
如何用fusor发电.png
User avatar
Mark Rowley
Posts: 908
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2002 12:20 am
Real name: Mark Rowley
Location: Sacramento California
Contact:

Re: Is this a possible way to generate energy by fusor?

Post by Mark Rowley »

Hi Jiashen,
Your answer can be found here:

viewtopic.php?f=42&t=12948

Mark Rowley
User avatar
Richard Hull
Moderator
Posts: 14975
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 9:44 am
Real name: Richard Hull

Re: Is this a possible way to generate energy by fusor?

Post by Richard Hull »

After reading what Mark pointed to above and understanding what you have read..........The answer is obviously, no....

Richard Hull
Thanks Mark for the URL
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
User avatar
Dennis P Brown
Posts: 3147
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 10:46 am
Real name: Dennis Brown

Re: Is this a possible way to generate energy by fusor?

Post by Dennis P Brown »

Read some thermodynamics, first. Specifically, the Carnot cycle. You will both learn a great deal of valuable science and be able to understand when and when not a system can produce useful energy from any energy source that provides heat.
ian_krase
Posts: 636
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:48 am
Real name: Ian Krase

Re: Is this a possible way to generate energy by fusor?

Post by ian_krase »

A brief list of things that are problematic with this:

- No currently existing fusor can produce anywhere near 1% of the energy put into it, so there's no point in even talking about generating energy with one. (And there are reasons to think that the types of fusors we are building can never, ever reach break-even -- contrast tokamaks, which have over the years gotten remarkably close at the cost of being vastly larger and more expensive.)


- If the pipes are conductive, they'll ground out the electric field in the fusor. If the pipes are nonconductive, they'll collect surface charge which also disturbs the plasma in weird ways.

- In either case, they will continuously be bombarded by high-energy deuterons, which is generally bad for materials that you don't want to be melted, embrittled, cracked, worn away by sputtering, etc.


- Even if your fusor was somehow achieving breakeven, the energy would be released in the form of high-energy radiation, which your pipes going into the center of the device are not actually well-suited to collect as thermal energy. Also, collecting energy in the form of heat inevitably wastes a large fraction of the energy available.
User avatar
Richard Hull
Moderator
Posts: 14975
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 9:44 am
Real name: Richard Hull

Re: Is this a possible way to generate energy by fusor?

Post by Richard Hull »

The laws of physics rule with a steel fist. You can't break these laws. No cops are needed. They are watched over by the universe and are there to stop you from breaking the law. The Carnot cycle is under the big protective umbrella of the laws of thermodynamics. Don Lancaster said it best....." it's the only game in town and it's rigged"

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
User avatar
Bob Reite
Posts: 576
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:03 pm
Real name: Bob Reite
Location: Wilkes Barre/Scranton area

Re: Is this a possible way to generate energy by fusor?

Post by Bob Reite »

The three Laws of Thermodynamics:

You can't win.

You can't break even.

You can't even quit the game.
The more reactive the materials, the more spectacular the failures.
The testing isn't over until the prototype is destroyed.
User avatar
Mark Rowley
Posts: 908
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2002 12:20 am
Real name: Mark Rowley
Location: Sacramento California
Contact:

Re: Is this a possible way to generate energy by fusor?

Post by Mark Rowley »

Dennis, who is "both" ? Certiantly Richard, Bob, or I are not included in that, lol.

Mark Rowley
ian_krase
Posts: 636
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:48 am
Real name: Ian Krase

Re: Is this a possible way to generate energy by fusor?

Post by ian_krase »

Richard,

I think you protest too much.

This is the dream of achieving practical breakeven in your garage (and not dying from radiation), not the dream of breaking thermodynamics. If you somehow managed to achieve breakeven in a fusor there's no reason you could not run a Rankine cycle engine off it.

(True, our earnest newbie forgot the condenser. But I think you're being overly harsh here.)
Rex Allers
Posts: 570
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:39 am
Real name:
Location: San Jose CA

Re: Is this a possible way to generate energy by fusor?

Post by Rex Allers »

I restrained myself from this sorta facetious, but technically ok (I think) reply.

As the OP questioned it, I think it could work. The question related to a fusor but didn't mention fusion.

They asked about, "steam to propel the turbine, so it generate energy?"

So, yeah, I think it could. Lots of input energy to generate a hot plasma could in theory boil water which might be able to generate electricity.

Of course there would be massive losses from input to output power, just like fusion in our fusors. If there was fusion, or not, would make very little difference, so I suggest not turning on expensive D2 and wasting it for this process.

I just wanted to point out that actual fusion was not actually mentioned and pedantically there might be a very inefficient way to make this apparatus "generate".
Rex Allers
User avatar
Richard Hull
Moderator
Posts: 14975
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 9:44 am
Real name: Richard Hull

Re: Is this a possible way to generate energy by fusor?

Post by Richard Hull »

Since fusion was not mentioned, a good electric, hot plate boiler would be far more efficient, though still grossly inefficient, even with a condenser in the system.

One must assume any energy recovery scheme with a fusor at its core to generate steam involves the poser's feeling that he or she will get fusion based transfer of energy. Thus, the cheeky response. We are here to educate and put dreams of spending a fortune to make a real fusor with the thought that they will get net energy to rest. A great waste of electricity and valuable deuterium to drive a steam turbine. Even the much vaunted, multi-billion dollar ITER, if completely successful, will not drive a steam cycle to make electricity, unless one is attached as an after thought. Heck, even the 1945-46 little "water boiler" was hooked up to light a couple of lamps. The early series of test bed reactors powered the town of Arco in the early 50's well before the Nautilus or Shipping Port less than 14 years after the discovery of fission. Fusion remains forever in the doldrums and approaches the first century anniversary of its discovery well before fission.

It seems the very word fusor and fusion with the "star in a jar" imagery, seems to drag in the hopeful, when at best, its scientific value, regardless of expense, is as a useful amateur source of neutrons for experiment.

For the great masses, thus far successful in doing fusion, the fusor represents merely a blustery badge of honor on their path to the next DIY. The vast majority of those arriving here, whether they just lurk or join, never lift a finger to do anything. Lots of dreaming and no action. Inertia of kinetic action is a harsh law of physics that seems to be the major actor here.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
User avatar
Dennis P Brown
Posts: 3147
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 10:46 am
Real name: Dennis Brown

Re: Is this a possible way to generate energy by fusor?

Post by Dennis P Brown »

"Both" as in one idea and then followed by the other idea - not a reference to both of you who commented; sure, I think everyone should know the Carnot cycle but realize that is a bridge too far for many. Besides, I seriously doubt most such fantasy based thinker's will ever bother with such crude reality - gets in the way of deep thinking ... not. For any newbie that wants a superficial idea about the Carnot cycle - it relates the operating temperature and pressure of the heated system to its 'discharge temperature/pressure waste system and defines the total possible work that any such heat based system can create. A really good power plant (say gas) that can achieve in the low thirty percent input energy converted to work is doing fantastic and recall that such a plant is burning fuel at atmospheric pressure at about 1000 K.
User avatar
Mark Rowley
Posts: 908
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2002 12:20 am
Real name: Mark Rowley
Location: Sacramento California
Contact:

Re: Is this a possible way to generate energy by fusor?

Post by Mark Rowley »

I think we'll just have to wait until the original poster clarifies the definition of "generate energy".

Mark Rowley
Post Reply

Return to “Other Forms of Fusion - Theory, Construction, Discussion, URLs”