Electroacoustic resonance and fusion

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Aaron Stoll
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Real name: Aaron Stoll

Electroacoustic resonance and fusion

Post by Aaron Stoll » Wed Nov 04, 2020 5:08 am

Hey all,
My name is Aaron Stoll. I was part of the Peninsula College fusor group. I went on after that to University of Washington and obtained a bachelor's in physics and another in mathematics. After my graduation from UW, from a promise I made to my wife before I started back into school, I got into the working world. However, in spite of the distance in space-time between my work on the PC fusor and the current moment, I have never stopped thinking about fusion energy. I have spent about 10 years thinking about many different ideas within fusion energy, drawing up plans, and then scrapping them because I find a flaw in my idea via thought experiment. However, I have a new idea I feel is very promising.

I am announcing here that I am have been working for the past couple of months on getting parts and supplies together to try a new build I have been kicking around based on the Farnsworth design and utilizing some ideas from the Bussard design. I will update here with my progress, but it is my hope to be able to show fast fusion of a relatively dense hydrogen plasma within the reactor as a demonstration. If I can do this, and I can figure out how to do fuel input and exhaust, I may have a design that will produce continuous energy out of cyclic fusion burns, similar to the cycles of an internal combustion engine.

Since we know that internal combustion engines essentially run off of small explosions, this is where fast fusion comes in. I want to try to utilize electroacoustic resonance to achieve mostly complete fusion rapidly of specified volumes of hydrogen/deuterium. This will allow for small volumes of fusion fuel to be burned in rapid succession, so that multiple miniature reactors can be combined into a single large energy production system. That is the end game though.

My intent is to start simply with achieving electroacoustic resonance within a spherical Farnsworth design, and see if that increases the totality of the fusion burn per volume of hydrogen. I even have a nifty idea for proof of concept. Hydrogen and deuterium plasmas glow distinctly purple. Helium plasmas glow very white. If I can turn on the modulator for the electroacoustic resonance, and successfully change the plasma color from purple to white very quickly, then it will be worth sending that gas sample for analysis to determine proportionally how much fuel was converted to helium.

I think that is enough to get started. As far as I can tell, I do not think anyone has tried something like this. If I am mistaken, please let me know. Thanks very much for your time and attention, and I hope you all have a brilliant night, and day tomorrow.

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Dennis P Brown
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Re: Electroacoustic resonance and fusion

Post by Dennis P Brown » Wed Nov 04, 2020 7:49 am

Your introduction post should be in the "Please Introduce Yourself" section. The rest, could be here. You also need to explain what you mean by "electroacoustic resonance", however (using known physics.) At least read some physics on fusion and try to explain your concept rather than using color ... .

Patrick Lindecker
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Re: Electroacoustic resonance and fusion

Post by Patrick Lindecker » Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:30 am

Yes, "Acoustically driven Magnetized Target Fusion" seems a promising way for fusion.
See https://generalfusion.com/wp-content/up ... eactor.pdf

However it is not used an acoustic resonance because variation of pressure would be relatively small.

Patrick Lindecker

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Dennis P Brown
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Re: Electroacoustic resonance and fusion

Post by Dennis P Brown » Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:16 pm

That is a liquid/plasma system that has stalled and has made no progress or accomplishments for a number of years now. More to the point, fusion in those devices have no relavence to fusion in a fusor, at all. Completely different fusion processes - you need to learn the differnces.

Buzz words alone like "resonance" don't improve a process's viabillity.

Justin Fozzard
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Re: Electroacoustic resonance and fusion

Post by Justin Fozzard » Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:27 pm

Aaron, firstly I have to agree with John, Dennis and Patrick that you must follow a few simple rules; use your proper name and also read the comprehensive FAQ's. This is a serious group where you will find many knowledgeable members willing to help and advise if you abide by those rules.
Secondly, I hope you are being serious with your proposed experimental research and not just using a few misunderstood buzz-words in order to try impressing us.

Electroacoustic plasma waves were a hot research topic in the 1960's and I've attached a few relevant papers from the era that might aid your studies.
Electroacoustic waves, a type of longitudinal plasma wave, are usually excited using an RF source at the local plasma frequency, which will be in the low GHz range for a fusor based plasma. Your excitation wavelength is going to be larger than a typical fusor grid, so you will probably need to construct quite a large device for your experiments to see measurable effects. You will also find that most of the engergy that you've put into the plasma will be radiated out again as electroacoustic waves.

Perhaps you mean acoustic compression waves instead? These are more like sound waves in a plasma, and I've attached a paper by Saxton that discusses a method of producing these. It should be pointed out that this is not a suitable method of compressing a plasma to the densities required for useful amounts of fusion.


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Richard Hull
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Re: Electroacoustic resonance and fusion

Post by Richard Hull » Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:32 pm

Justin, thanks for your diligence and effort in supplying relevant URLs to explain the process of resonance in plasmas. I was tempted to delete the main posting here not so much due to the error in using the "Squatch" handle, (not allowed), but due to the unproved content. It is only the part where the Mr. Stoll claims to be gathering parts to test his ideas, upon which, I allow it to remain. The proof is in the doing and showing via images that a true effort is being undertaken.

We did away with the scroungers club solely due to so many applying and never doing anything real. Well, I am willing to allow such postings as this, a declaration of a willingness to "do", to remain. We will allow it only in that some verbal verve directed at doing is claimed. We will see if we ever see another posting related to the doing claimed, is forthcoming. A willingness on the part of Mr. Stoll to correct his entry user name and use his real name instead of "the Squatch" will be telling.

Justin did a great service to us all and saved this original post. He noted that a good bit of work had already been done on this concept in the last century and supplied references. He also noted that he felt that fusion could not be done using this plan of attack. Certainly, the concept never "caught fire" when it was originally posited or we might have seen a good deal of physical development resulting or, yet, ongoing to achieve fusion related to it, today. This is a constructive thread, a teaching thread. Make of it what you will.

The clawing, ever strained work to achieve usable 24-7-365 fusion net energy has been ongoing, is ongoing, and, I fear will remain ongoing for many years into the future. It is the ultimate carrot hung out in front of the fusion donkey to keep it moving.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

Aaron Stoll
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Real name: Aaron Stoll

Re: Electroacoustic resonance and fusion

Post by Aaron Stoll » Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:06 pm

Hey all. Sorry about my confusion with the username. No trolling intended, I simply did not see that in the rules. The Squatch is the tag I use outside of my own name, in gaming and other online forums. I apologize for not realizing it was inappropriate to use it here. I assure you all I meant no disrespect.

In terms of progress, sadly there has not been a lot. The living situation my wife, daughter and I have been in for the past several months has not permitted me to do anything other than collect materials into my storage unit. To be clear, the three of us have been stuck living in a camper on friend's property. It has been a rough year. I am not going to recklessly build a neutron producing device in a storage unit building. Thus, experimental progress in my investigations into potentially using electromagnetically stimulated pressure waves in plasma as a fusion catalyst will have to wait until my family is in a better situation.

I apologize for my hopeful language. Perhaps I came on too strong, but to be clear, my hopes are for any and every fusion energy project and idea, not just my own. I realize it is a very complex problem with many different approaches, something that I think is awesome! I meant no offense by any of this and apologize for my arrogance. I was not trying to be arrogant, but I see that I got too far ahead of myself to be inspiring. I am, and always have been, very enthusiastic about the idea of harnessing fusion energy to power human activities.

Thank you very much for the resources. I have found a few other papers on this topic as well, including the one that inspired me to want to look deeper into the idea conceptually. That paper is Excitation of Acoustic Waves in Plasma by WA Saxton. I tried to add a link in this response, but the only one I can seem to find directly to this PDF is an ungodly long google shortcut. I have been looking more into this in my spare time and still feel hopeful about this being useful for fusion energy research. I will continue to update, especially once we get out of this situation and I have a garage again that I can begin to assemble an experiment in.

Thank you again Richard, as always, for both being encouraging and realistic at the same time. Your realism is very important for optimists like me to hear. It is always appreciated. I look forward to further correspondence on this topic and others in nuclear fusion!

Lastly, as a bit of an announcement, I took my motivation onto a bit of a different track and am trying to get involved with a larger, well funded fusion project. I have had one interview with them that went very well, and that I am extremely grateful for. It is very frustrating to spend half a decade studying nuclear and particle physics only to end up working as a communications lineman out of school. I am still grateful for that time though, because of the massive amount of experience and exposure to many different aspects of signal processing and radio physics. I have good hope that all future interviews will go well at this point for the position I am seeking with them, so I will update with good news in this topic as well.

Sorry again for any stir I caused with all this. I was negligent in reading over the full rules structure of the forum. Beyond this apology response, I will make sure that future posts fall within the guidelines correctly. I have always deeply appreciated being a part of this forum, going all the way back to 2007-8 when we were working on the fusor project at Peninsula College. It was not my intent to post incorrectly.

Thanks all for taking the time to read this. I really do appreciate the support and the criticism because those are the things that help make good ideas real. I look forward to future communications and I hope you all have a brilliant day!

Aaron Stoll
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Real name: Aaron Stoll

Re: Electroacoustic resonance and fusion

Post by Aaron Stoll » Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:04 pm

Specifically on the topic of induced pressure waves in plasma being used toward the goal of fusion, I am simply trying to add another tool to my fusion toolbox. I was not trying to claim that electroacoustic resonance was the end-all solution to make nuclear fusion a reality. I want to investigate this the same way I want to investigate magnetic or electrostatic confinement fusion pistons to potentially use a mechanical compression effect in addition to the necessary plasma confinement fields to get that probability of fusion up. Since the actual event of fusion is quantum mechanical, it is an unavoidable burden to have to view it in terms of a probability of fusion theoretically. I will need to build a couple different small designs to get real world numbers, as Richard has pointed out.

Maybe it was the pandemic, maybe the falling out I had with family over their weird obsession with politics, but something kick started my brain and got me out of "go to work, come home, hang with family, play video games, repeat" mode and I am not going to waste it. I am just feeling confident enough in some of the ideas I have had to actually put some real work back into them again. I definitely appreciate the support after this last year, and absolutely recognize it has been hell for everyone, and so appreciate the support all the more.

I think what I described above, seeking any and every new tool that might provide progress toward a successful fusion reactor, is how most people view the journey to fusion on this site, from what I remember back in the fusor project days. The goal of getting to fusion is the important part, the place to get to, but how you get there is always going to be the barrier and the journey. It is a phenomenon that normally takes place relatively slowly at the heart of a star, so it will take some work and creativity to make it happen faster, and without the star to provide the environment, as I am sure everyone in here knows. I just really appreciate this community and am sorry I have not participated more over the years.

I lost sight of where I wanted to go with what I studied in school, and ended up getting swallowed up by industry for a while. You would be surprised how enticing getting to play with radio physics all day while getting paid (poorly, lol) and getting free cable and internet can be to a physicist. Barring the situations where I had to risk my life to try and restore people's internet and television, comms work is really fun. For example, the many occasions of driving out through heavy snow, 100 MPH wind, on frozen winding back roads in the dark, weaving around downed power and fallen trees, to place a generator to restore services because everybody that lives there has a generator for their house and is already calling and complaining because their internet is down, tends to take the fun right out of all the physics one can play with as a comms tech. So, in spite of all the fun to be had when times aren't stressful at work, I am still left feeling like I am doing the world a disservice by not applying myself towards things like this that I am capable of. It is time for me to actually put my degrees to work instead of wasting them working an easy job and spending my spare time playing video games. I have built a community of friends online through the gaming, so it is not entirely time wasted. They are all very cool people and many of them are actually quite brilliant. I meet people from all walks of life gaming. It is a remarkable tool for networking and for stress relief.

This is why I am challenging myself to actually find work in nuclear fusion research so that I can maintain both worlds. There are plenty enough people in this world capable of balancing amps and installing people's cable without the need of a physicist and mathematician to double check their work, though I am sure some people have had internet problems in the past that would warrant them wanting that. With some of the things that I have seen at this job that people had their names shamelessly attached to through work orders, and did not even care they could get fired for, I would not be shocked at all to have people feel more comfortable that someone with my education is looking out over their communications systems. However, the communications industry has been built by scientists and engineers from all parts of the world, a whole bunch of very brilliant people. The same information available to me is available to anyone in the job. I already have a background in nuclear fusion, and should be using my talents to at least work towards that goal, and am mildly ashamed that I have not already done so. Regardless, as I said, I am challenging myself to a career change into nuclear fusion because it is wasteful for me not to, and it is the thing I am truly most passionate about in this world.

Thank you guys again for the support, and I will be in touch more soon. I have other ideas that I want to run by you guys and see what you think. I am a firm believer in the ideology attributed to Edison. It took over a hundred versions of a light bulb before Edison arrived on one that was feasible. Never give up on something you know is a good idea, and do not be afraid to try many different routes to the same goal. Not a bad idea to live by, as I am sure many will agree. I will talk to you all more soon and I promise that my next post will be placed in the correct subforum.

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Richard Hull
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Re: Electroacoustic resonance and fusion

Post by Richard Hull » Sat Apr 24, 2021 6:29 am

Keep pluggin', learning, reading and a bit of doing. The doing is the hard part and teaches at a rate of 100:1 over study and musing which come easy. Best of luck, as always, and be sure to keep us abreast of your efforts in fusion.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

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