Fusor as transmitter

[Kreso]

Dear gentlemen,

Did anyone of fusioneers tried to build a communication device based on fusor emitting neutrinos? The achievable data rate is supposed to be about 10 bits/s, with neutrino radiation passing directly through the Earth?

If it has been already discussed, could you kindly put some links here?

Kind Regards,

[Chris Bradley]

I put an order in to the local hardware store for 35 billion litres of bleach to pour down an old mine we've got nearby, to use as a receiver, but the order was refused and the Council declined me using the old pit shaft, so; no-go, I'm afraid.

[Mike Beauford]

I would think that the transmitter is only going to transmit a small fraction of the neut's in the direction you want. Then you would need to figure out how to receive them, once again only getting an extremely tiny amount that are able to be detected because your detector would be very small probably. The prospects of pulling nuet's out of the air so to speak and figuring out what is actually a signal vs. background are staggeringly small. The size of the receiver would probably need to be extremely large to up the percentage chance of actual getting a neut coming from the direction you want. Then you would need to some how determine if it's a false trigger or the actual event you're looking for... it boggles the mind.

My 2 cents...

Mike Beauford

[Brian McDermott]

...except in order to use neutrinos as a communication medium, you have to be able to reliably stop them in the receiver device. Considering that trillions upon trillions of them pass pretty much unhindered through your body, the Earth and the Sun every second, you'd be hard pressed to achieve this with an artificial source.

[Brett]

I've heard talk of using neutrinos generated by a particle accelerator, not a fusor, to send one-way messages to deep running submarines.

<a href=http://www.popsci.com/military-aviation ... >Neutrinos May Someday Provide High-Speed Submarine Communication</a>

I'm pretty sure that's what you're talking about. A fusor wouldn't generate directional neutrinos, the inverse square law would rule out it being used for such a purpose at any feasible power level. I doubt you could detect the neutrino flux from a hobby fusor even if you were right on top of it.

[lutzhoffman]

Chris: I have a potential solution for you, here is what you do:

Start by having the UPS man deliver all of the armor plate, from say an old Missouri class naval battleship. Then you can just make a quick stack out of them, say about 40-50 meters long, by 10 meter wide when assembled, but be sure to leave spaces, for the future scintillator material to go between them, and of course for the magnetization coils. We will cover this later.

You could even home brew the scintillator by just having the Fed Ex guy deliver all of the surplus, or recycled methacrylate plastic available in North America for the year. Bringing in the national resources of a country like China, could save you many months or even years! This effort really does need to be done to speed things up, here is what you do:

Start by "seeding" the physics journals, with some strange theories on Neutrino focusing, and black hole theory. Then just add all of the example calculus problems that you can find from the older textbooks, and finish it with a short blurb on special relativity. Remember to remove all of the answers to the problems, or better yet randomly shuffle them like in cards.

Next start a conspiracy web site claiming to have uncovered a super secret "Manhattan Project " size highly classified Neutrino weapons program, run by the Kurdish communist party, staffed with key scientists kidnapped from Saddam's labs in Iraq, during the time of the first gulf war. You can even claim that someone is secretly using the world bank, and even UN relief funds, to finance the whole thing. You will even have "proof" because there was no money to put gas in the trucks to deliver the recent earthquake relief aid, which is why it sat on the tarmac at the airport for over a week, instead for going to the people who were in desperate need of it. Now you will have them, if anyone still does not believe you, just mention hurricane Katrina, and New Orleans.

Now you can pretty much just ask for a lot of the minor stuff like the cement truck full of some rare earth oxides for mixing up the scintillator etc. If you get stuck with some corporation having what you need, and not wanting to part with it, then just say the magic words: "Government Non Bid Contract"

Now the only task remaining is how to the get Chinese government support. You will need this for the 2 big accelerators to generate the collimated neutrino beams that are also required for your project. This may be a little tricky, because there is no single major religion to easily hijack in China, for support, or to manipulate the system on a grass roots level.

In the US it would have been easy, but sadly they do not have the money anymore, its all over in China, now. Which is to bad because It would have been so much more easy to get your hands on from within the US system. This would have been a piece of cake: Just like with G. Bush Jr., and the Iraq war funding: He had it so easy: Whenever some reporter, or someone else asked anything sensible, he just responded with a few key words like: America, People, abortion, babies. Sometimes used were two carefully memorized phrases: 1. "Weapons of Mass Destruction", 2. "The American People". If even these failed, then there was always the sure bet last resort, it was the simple, but highly effective: "Deer in the Headlights Look" followed by the words economy, wall street, patriotism, and faith, all combined in no particular order, or sequence.

The final touch for getting Chinese government support will be a few hundred pounds of strategic fortune cookies distributed in key restaurants in Beijing. Only to the ones frequented by the political elite of course. To give the whole fortune cookie message idea more credibility, you could even print carefully selected fortunes like: "Your mistress will be very pleased tonight at the hotel", followed by some Cialis, and a little THC in their high fat desert for example. For resistant uncooperative officials, who fail to respond to the positive fortunes, then they for example get a few negative fortunes, like the "Diarrhea Fortune Cookie" which is always served with the Castor oil stir-fry, and a low dose of LSD, or just enough amphetamine to prevent sleep for good measure. Now you will soon enjoy resources equivalent to those of NASA in the 1970's

Things are going well now you can even claim to be able to focus the next supernova neutrino burst, into a point singularity to generate a "mini black hole" of just the right size, with the just the correct amount of inertia, to suck up any pre-selected point, on the opposite side of the planet, and promptly whisk it away into the void. While leaving behind only a small burst of X-rays, from the event. Just tell them that in the far distant future, it will then simply merge with the super massive black hole, which resides at the center of our Milky Way galaxy.

Now do an interview on Fox News, claiming that all of this, and even more fantastic things can be done with your setup. If things should get get heated, then just divert their attention by mentioning that in the future the sucked up areas may actually re-emerge, in a different space and time, due to some unforeseen interaction with our galactic cores singularity. And that "theoretically" this may in part help to explain why Elvis was recently seen peering from a spacecraft window, and in the exact same area, where the 3 breasted woman recently had big foots love child, after receiving a psychic message from Michael Jackson that she would conceive. I mean what are the odds that all this is just random? No Way!!! Even more incredible is that Nostradamus predicted all of this hundreds of years ago....... Now you will have the majority of the US population, a few Canadians, and the entire middle east region, except for maybe Israel eating out of your hand. Its just to bad that the Chinese people will never learn about it because a few key words have been blocked on the google replacement search engine there. .

You can keep this all up for a very long time, when nothing substantial ever happens in the project, or for that matter anywhere near it. If you are ever called on it, first try the Bush Method like questioning their patriotism, etc, or calling for more de-regulation. If this does not work anymore, then just obfuscate, and say for example: That the Nickle-Iron in the Earths core has affected the focus, and that you only need to recalculate a few equations, and re-group. Kind of like what Ronald Reagan did with the Star Wars program, in the 1980's. "Then submit your next funding request."

Never of course openly ever show any kind of doubt, behave just like the AIG, and the car company executives, after the taxpayer bailout. Hire a jet and just run off to some super expensive posh resort, or Spa, for a while, and they will quickly forget about you.

Now, just for good measure summon any famous Tele-Evangelist, with a simple promise of monetary, or material gain, you can even give them a small advance of cash. (Do not worry there is plenty more on its way from China soon.) If this does not work, then just tell him, or her, that you have a copy of "The Tape" - or- "The Recording", while claiming that you got it from another Tele-Evangelist , who's program is in the nearest by broadcast time slot . Now you can even claim divine help, and that pesky council will never disapprove you again on anything ever, you could even set up a giant cryo Chlorine storage facility now, and it will suddenly be seen as a community benefit.

After all the preceding has been completed........All forum members can now enjoy their fully stocked individual labs, at the Hull Institute for Fusion Research. The construction of the facilities will be in part financed by a new tax on all church owned corporations, which did not meet the new strict humanitarian based non-profit guidelines. At the ribbon cutting ceremony the first ever message was sent by the use of neutrinos. it was decoded by the visiting scientists from Willis University. The message originated from the opposite side of the planet from the Coulter Institute of Physics. Also on hand were the representatives of Spellman High Voltage, the largest cooperate contractor for the project. The message read: "42"

Sorry, just could not resist having a little fun : )

[Andrew Seltzman]

Actually CERN did something like this. They were examining neutrino oscillations though.

http://www.uni-muenster.de/Physik.KP/fr ... ch-en.html
http://cerncourier.com/cws/article/cern/28439

So it certainty is possible to detect to detect the difference in man made neutrinos from cosmic background. The problem, as Brett pointed out, is output rate. A fusor does not have any where near the neutrino output of CERN, so there is no practical way to assemble a communication system in this manner.

Andrew Seltzman

[lutzhoffman]

On the serious side....Neutrinos are very difficult to detect at all, and we are bathed in a sea of natural, and man made neutrinos 24/7. A commercial power reactor at just past criticality for example produces about 10 x 10to the 20th neutrinos per second. So they are everywhere, and your signal to noise ratio would really appear to suck.

Your thumb alone has millions of of solar neutrinos going through it every second. In ham radio we often talk about signal to noise ratio. Neutrino's would perhaps have one of the worst signal to noise ratios out there. Yes they can zip through the planet, but the same properties also make them just as likely to zip through your detector.

Neutrons would be much more easy to detect, and pretty simple to differentiate. Much better than than neutrinos would be. This said they could have niche applications like transmitting data through a dense substance like lead etc. They have figured out how to produce highly directional neutrino beams via the conversion of pions into neutrinos.

A fusor is a pretty anemic source to begin with, since the neutrino yield would be in proportion to that of the fusion yield. Neutron counting it turns out is much more easy, and feasible for an amateur to accomplish.

[Brett]

Use of a particle accelerator has two advantages over a fusor:

1. The neutrinos emerge in the form of a beam, much less inverse square loss.

2. You can control the energy of the neutrinos. The neutrino capture rate goes up with higher energies. So you could, theoretically, tune it so they make it through the planet, while still interacting with matter at a not totally insignificant rate.

I believe somebody even proposed using high energy neutrino beams to remotely disable nuclear weapons. But it would have required an absurd amount of power in the beam.

[Chris Bradley]

lutzhoffman wrote:
> On the serious side....Neutrinos are very difficult to detect at all, and we are bathed in a sea of natural, and man made neutrinos 24/7. A commercial power reactor at just past criticality for example produces about 10 x 10to the 20th neutrinos per second.
Really? What is the main neutrino-yielding reaction?

[Carl Willis]

Beta decay.

[Chris Roberts]

Most neutrinos that are passing through us are coming from the sun. The first step in the p-p fuel cycle has two protons fuse into deuterium, releasing a positron and neutrino.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton-pro ... n_reaction

-Chris

[Chris Bradley]

Sure, but any in particular, or just some arising in the 'general soup' that is fission?

[Richard Hull]

The original posting came two days late on the third of April. Quite a bit of discussion on a subject pretty much rivaling muon induced fusion in intrinsic value.

Richard Hull