A first posting.

It may be difficult to separate "theory" from "application," but let''s see if this helps facilitate the discussion.
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Chris Bradley
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A first posting.

Post by Chris Bradley »

Hello!

I've been meaning to begin posting on the Fusor forum for some time now and I think this is as good a time as any, for the reasons that I will explain.

I have been working on an idea for a novel plasma containment system for the last 25 years. I have tried to solicit support for the idea during that time and, indeed, was successful in generating some interest in it with some mainstream players in the 'fusion research industry' in the 90's whilst I was a Research Fellow in computational electromagnetics. However, I have changed career since then and as soon as you step out of that scientific community it would appear that your ideas no longer carry any weight. Despite being a published author and member of professional institutions, this is still of no consequence if your very idea suggests implicitly that others have missed some interesting avenues of scientific investigation.

Anyhow, earlier last year this idea began to fester in my mind again because although I had every intention of keeping it alive, I am, in point of fact, at least half-way though my life-time yet I still hadn't actually taken that idea anywhere. So I figured that I should at least publish the material. Now, as I know full well that any fusion ideas are generally considered crank-inputs unless you have the patronage of some known Institute supporting your work, the only practical way for me to publish is to file a patent, which I duly did last July.

Now here's the thing; as I wrote out that patent it dawned on me that there wasn't any real reason I couldn't actually build this thing myself! I had always previously thought that there was no way I could have done this, and in point of fact I was probably right! However, with the advent of a number of technologies coming down in price, the existence of 'ebay' and the sourcing of all manner of odd paraphernalia from across the world, and by no means least the improvement in my own understanding of many necessary subjects over those 25 years, I decided I should give it a go.

It is also not at all insignificant that my change of career brought with it a slightly-better income with which I could fund this! I rather suspect that this is a 'return' to the self-funded 'gentlemen scientists' who, in ages gone by, were the true originators of scientific improvement. Now scientists are funded by governments and so end up answering politically framed questions rather than true, original science. (I have written to the IAEA on this very point, in relation to private fusion work – I'll post my letter and their reply in due course.)

'Great! Now stop blithering and tell us the technical bits!' Sure – but I regret I can't tell you as much as I'd like to at the moment because of the patent thing. Yeah, I know, it sounds just the same as all those snake-oil inventions. But I regret it is a legitimate claim and if I disclose then I can't patent, and so I can't then publish it for general dissemination. I can tell you that I filed on July 31st last year and, if you know about these things (which means you probably know more than me – any advice welcome!?) I then have one year to do all my experimental bits and re-file prior to it being published and the national, and then international, searches. Therefore, I now have 3 months to re-write that patent specification based on my work over the last year. Once it is confirmed as 'safely filed' and duly protected for public dissemination, I promise to post every last detail I can on this forum and answer all questions. Double promise!!

For that reason, I am now posting here to get some discussion and feedback on some of the theoretical elements that I will be putting into that imminent patent re-filing. I hope that you'll look out for the posts I will be putting into some of the threads and that they will stimulate some new, interesting, discussions for us all.

best regards,

Chris Bradley.
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Re: A first posting.

Post by gamempire »

Hi Chris,

First off, welcome to the boards. I myself have only begun posting in the last few months, but like you, have been lurking for some time.

One thing I've noticed through some of the posts like yours that I have read are ones where the general premise of the post is "I have this great idea, but I can't tell you about it." I've seen that it bothers people to no end when people come here and post that kind of stuff. The saying goes "'Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

I'd suggest just talking about general ideas, and your approach, but without obviously going into details of your patent filing. I myself am working on my fusor as a capstone/senior design project, and my professor and I have come up with several experimental ideas that could potentially increase the fusion rate significantly. But remember, they're just ideas and experiments.

Because my professor and I would like to publish the work if it pans out, we don't go into details either, but that doesn't mean you can't discuss such ideas privately with certain members of the community in an attempt to get their feedback, off the record of course. (I've done this myself). I will be posting the preliminary design report for my fusor in the next few weeks, with some parts removed. People like Richard, Carl and others are extremely experienced and knowledgeable, and are a great resource to have.

So maybe after July 31st rolls around and your patent is published, you'll be kind enough to share. Either way, welcome and enjoy

Regards,
Josh
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Carl Willis
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Re: A first posting.

Post by Carl Willis »

>"I have this great idea, but I can't tell you about it." I've seen that it bothers people to no end when people come here and post that kind of stuff.

Yes indeed. This is a well-worn trope that is strongly discouraged, mostly because of its inanity (and usual coupling with an unrequited attention-grab: "real soon now I'll show you something cool..."). Also, the subtle irony of dropping into an "open source" hobby forum to seek contributions on a self-serving patent app is probably not lost on us.

I doubt that you actually need to wait to discuss your idea. You already filed an application for it. At least in the US, one is thus covered with regard to disclosure, even if the inspector sits on the application until it fossilizes. So out with it!

All this said though, welcome. You have productively engaged the technical forums already so I'm forgoing my typically shrill and eye-watering peal of scorn over the caginess [collective sigh of relief].

-Carl
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Chris Bradley
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Re: A first posting.

Post by Chris Bradley »

Thanks for the comments. Yes, I know the annoying angle of secrecy, but it is legitimate. I was told by UK patent office that it is not advisable to discuss without confidentiality if I have any intention of further patenting elsewhere. I've not actually filed yet in US but intend to. This is why I specifically gave you a time line with promisary intention of discussing further. You are then most welcome to freely blow my idea to smithereens...!!

I hope and trust that I am not seen as seeking contributions to it, but am being quite particular. I am looking to get some back-up and agreement on fundamental theory equations which would apply to any such devices that aim to recirculate their scattered fuel ions back up to the full drive potential. I think that is a very clear, specific, improvement I am trying to make over the fusor and is, in itself, a useful idea quite irrespective of my patent's ultimate cleverness or idiocy. As I say, I'm sure there's more than just my way of getting this done, so if it can be demonstrated as possibly approaching a viable energy pay-back, then other such device types might get dreamed up. I can't patent the idea of re-generating scattered particles to achieve energy payback, but I can be the one to initiate getting it discussed in detail.

So I think I've gone a long way further than just showing you a spark in a bottle!

Further, I would like to be collaborative and will demonstrate it in the following way. If anyone has an interest in such ideas and might care to hold a patent in their own country for themselves, then I will offer to disclose in confidence my patent if they want to translate and file it for themselves in their home country (not US or UK). I'll suggest that I keep a 5% interest of that IPR so as to stay involved with it in that country. Not sure how the mechanism for that might work out, but that'd be up to you to find out and tell me about your local regulations, and to convince me that you are able to progress it.

Not sure I can show my keenness for openness and collaboration any more than that, at this stage!

best regards,

Chris MB.
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Steven Sesselmann
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Re: A first posting.

Post by Steven Sesselmann »

Chris,

The issue of patenting comes up here in the group from time to time. When you think you have an idea that might have commercial value, you may consider patenting it, but where and how?

Many living in the US run straight to the US patent office and and that's the last they see of their patent for years, apart from that there is a commercial world outside of the US.

The proper route should be to first file a provisional patent in your home country, as soon as you think you have a bright idea, it's cheap and it gives you a priority date. If you six months later make improvements to your invention, you can file another provisional, and you can keep doing this indefinitely.

Once you decide to apply for a proper patent, the best way is to apply with the World International Patent office or WIPO. With WIPO you can request that your patent be examined in the country of your choice. If you know that the US patent office is running two years behind schedule, you could always request examination in Russia, China or anywhere else for that matter.

About 18 months after applying, WIPO will publish your patent, and you are then free to talk with anyone about your invention.

After the patent has been published, there is a period where other inventors may object to your patent, and after this, you can enter the national stage and seek protection in those countries where you expect to commercially exploit the invention, and this might be the USA or UK or any other countries that are signatories to the International Patent Treaty.

All of this could cost a fortune if you used a patent attorney for every process, but that is probably not necessary, as most of the guys here are reasonably literate.

Use a lawyer to draft your patent document and especially the claims, but then you can do the rest of the filing on line.

I have been through this process twice, and I think I might get it right next time

Happy to help anyone who is contemplating going this route.

Steven
http://www.gammaspectacular.com - Gamma Spectrometry Systems
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Steven_Sesselmann - Various papers and patents on RG
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Chris Bradley
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Re: A first posting.

Post by Chris Bradley »

Thanks for your support, Steven, very grateful for it.

Us sole inventors appear to have to work in a 'vacuum' (no pun intended). I've had no mentoring, active support, guidance, promotion, funding, teaching or any other form of sponsorship. We have to be inventor, draftsman, builder, engineer, quartermaster and salesmen of things whose construction and appearance is unknown to even us to start with until we evolve its form and function.

Frankly, I am completely and utterly exhausted by the experience. When I started I set aside thousands of pounds of finance to commission others to build the bits I needed, but found no-one to take up those commissions. A year later, I now know far more about electronics than I ever, ever, wanted to know!!

It is not a whinge and an whine, but a curse on modern lone inventors. I know others have to go through the same thing aswell but I would far rather give up the IPR to an organisation and be employed to make it work (or otherwise). The great scientific advancements of the 1920s-1970s usually followed this model. Now we are subjected to this $$$ demand to stick everything through IPR routes, else you have nothing to 'sell', and therefore no-one is interested.

I regret I feel totally and completely obliged down this secretive route and gain no satisfaction from it whatsoever. It offends my desire for open science. There is no alternative. To publish openly is to kill an idea.

Whatever the outcome of your Star fusor, I think the real STAR is you, mate! You're not building to anyone else's plan, you're not employed or funded to be doing it but you're coming up with kit that look fabulous, and protecting the IPR aswell. I think that's unique.

I've tried to do the same and am pretty much done in by it now. I just don't know how you've managed it - I don't want to sound too fawning but I am genuinely in awe! (Still not sure about your theory of it, but your effort towards it is unquestionable.)

Whatever the progress of my experimental work, after July 31st I intend to go sleep for a year before doing any more with it!!!

best regards,

Chris MB.
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on patent secrecy.

Post by Edward Miller »

you can discuss your patent openly once the application is public on the uspto or epo sites.

it is a major pain waiting but once it's done woo-yay.
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