Ideas abound in the heads of people, especially people on a mission or with a problem they believe they can solve.
Ideas are so wonderful because you can have them pop into your head as an answer even if you are not competent to be thinking seriously about the issue anyway. Thus, a lot of folks with good ideas are often tripped up at the outset.
The beauty is that they are among the most free of all to muse over issues for they are perhaps totally ignorant of well traveled parts of the field where two are three of the pathways or steps in their thoughts are known to involve either impossibilities or "haven't been invented yets" by those competent in the field.
Then there is the tyro and or dilettante. These folks can range from quick rinse field readers to non-professional but practised individuals who have varying grasps on the matters at hand. The former can just be a well read dreamer and hypothesizer who has no hands on experience in the field. The latter can think along much more viable and robust lines ranging into the practical application and engineering aspects of a situation. The dreamer hypothesizer might develop very grandiose and complicated scenarios which just might be the answer to many mysteries, but hasn't the skill's, cash, or inclination to turn a single bolt. His only hope is to interest an experienced person who can DO and hopefully assemble his dream. Unfortunately, even with divine passion driving such efforts, the grand complication of the scheme based on costs and labors required to impliment, leave virtually 100% of such thoughts scattered about on the "cutting room floor" or languishing in some published and peer reviewed journal.
The practised do'er is often so heavily involved in real world projects that the though of assembling and testing of a massive and complicated scheme to "end-run" mother nature is just another setup to defeat. As such, the practised do'er, the very guy who might implement, is not the guy to talk to about distant visions. He has been in the trenches far too long and has had to step over too many bodies. He has anguished over too many failures and lost campaigns where nature has wagged her disapproving finger at him.
So we have natural barriers to the advancement of man.
1. An vast over abundance of deamers and theorizers both competent and incompetent.
2.An under-abundance of funds to direct in a positive and risky way with little hope of success at ideas that might appear sound.
3.A society that is now used to the quick buck, the instant return on investment and near zero time to market. This makes former R&D industry giants mere impotent shells of their former selves.
4.A cadre of competent and practised individuals who have to often be dragged quicking and screaming into what they perceive as "yet another save the world" and "let's bypass nature on this one" scheme.
5.A modern, highly politicized, science-industrial complex working to shunt off what government research money is available into ever larger "make busy" projects with no genuine hope of success but with long rewarding lifetimes.
What can be discussed as complex ideas and dreams can rarely ever be turned into practical hardware, mainly due to all the above reasons.
Ideas are nice, but have to pass through a sieve that is murderous in the real world. Few, if any good ones come out the bottom in whole form as originally dreamed up. Instead the few that survive are watered down, doomed to failure attempts that the political officer has approved and the paymaster has signed off on at the urgings of someone or group in the chain who sees a quick buck even in a failure, making the effort a win-win situation in their minds.
So when a great idea posted here gets panned, it is usually by a practised hand who can immediately envision about a hundred stopping blocks, (most of them monetary). Such pannings must not be taken too hard. The idea is out there. If it has true merit, it will be stolen and make someone ELSE very rich. If the beautiful idea is not implimented, it will simply molder away, un-touched and unsullied in the place it was first posited.
It is the way of the world.
Richard Hull
Ideas, theories, realities, engineering
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Richard Hull
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Ideas, theories, realities, engineering
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Re: Ideas, theories, realities, engineering
Richard
I appreciate your description of the life of the inventor/scientist. I have been in the inventing buisness since the mid '70s and have fully experienced what you describe. The latest episode in that saga is http://www.nukalert.com . As for practical considerations, I am also the manufacturer of this and other systems. So, I know of the pain, inertia, and failures of pioneering work. The system I proposed in "Deuterium Crystal Pulsar" could be a benchtop setup cobbled out of junk. The costliest aspect is probably generating an adequate vacuum. Tuning annd pruning might require the patience of Edison or Job. Before embarking on such a journey, Is would seem wise to ask opinions. I have described the concept to many people savy enough to understand the components & physics - the result is always: hmmmm......
I long ago gave up the idea of personal profit from it. Success in this area might even be dangerous on many levels. So, when I was led to this forum, I felt that it was the perfect place to put it into the public domain.
I look forward to a thorough and fruitful discussion of the idea.
Phil
I appreciate your description of the life of the inventor/scientist. I have been in the inventing buisness since the mid '70s and have fully experienced what you describe. The latest episode in that saga is http://www.nukalert.com . As for practical considerations, I am also the manufacturer of this and other systems. So, I know of the pain, inertia, and failures of pioneering work. The system I proposed in "Deuterium Crystal Pulsar" could be a benchtop setup cobbled out of junk. The costliest aspect is probably generating an adequate vacuum. Tuning annd pruning might require the patience of Edison or Job. Before embarking on such a journey, Is would seem wise to ask opinions. I have described the concept to many people savy enough to understand the components & physics - the result is always: hmmmm......
I long ago gave up the idea of personal profit from it. Success in this area might even be dangerous on many levels. So, when I was led to this forum, I felt that it was the perfect place to put it into the public domain.
I look forward to a thorough and fruitful discussion of the idea.
Phil
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Todd Massure
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- Real name: Todd Massure
Re: Ideas, theories, realities, engineering
Well said,
In this day it's hard to come up with something that hasn't been done before and even harder to come up with something that hasn't been thought of. Most of the simple "better mouse trap" ideas have been done, the inventor of today must, in most cases, be a cut above those of the past, and be able to dream freely as well as be able to crunch the numbers and have a good grasp on advanced concepts. Sometimes I feel like "why even try?" but then I remember many of the things that Richard has just stated. As far as the interest in fusion that all of us share, we must keep these things in mind. Even though "big science" may have a lot of money, government support etc.,it seems that those projects are often run by a bunch of yes men who think "I was hired to work on the Tokomak because the government gave my company funding for it so it must be the best idea,so that's what I'll do". Often it seems that people focus on one scheme that seems the best idea, so with blinders on, all the talent creativity and sweat goes into tweaking something that's already been beaten to death (which I'm quite guilty of myself)
Also many of the "egg heads" that are working on those projects are brilliant physicists & mathemeticians, but often times lack a basic creativity and ability to think outside the box.
Hope I'm not stepping on any toes, I know there are many creative people working on large well funded projects, and most of us on this forum would be sorely lacking information without them.
In this day it's hard to come up with something that hasn't been done before and even harder to come up with something that hasn't been thought of. Most of the simple "better mouse trap" ideas have been done, the inventor of today must, in most cases, be a cut above those of the past, and be able to dream freely as well as be able to crunch the numbers and have a good grasp on advanced concepts. Sometimes I feel like "why even try?" but then I remember many of the things that Richard has just stated. As far as the interest in fusion that all of us share, we must keep these things in mind. Even though "big science" may have a lot of money, government support etc.,it seems that those projects are often run by a bunch of yes men who think "I was hired to work on the Tokomak because the government gave my company funding for it so it must be the best idea,so that's what I'll do". Often it seems that people focus on one scheme that seems the best idea, so with blinders on, all the talent creativity and sweat goes into tweaking something that's already been beaten to death (which I'm quite guilty of myself)
Also many of the "egg heads" that are working on those projects are brilliant physicists & mathemeticians, but often times lack a basic creativity and ability to think outside the box.
Hope I'm not stepping on any toes, I know there are many creative people working on large well funded projects, and most of us on this forum would be sorely lacking information without them.
Re: Ideas, theories, realities, engineering
Hi Folks:
Brilliance will only go so far you know.
Look how long it took to get a workable solar panel.
You do realise the Egyptians invented the first battery.
The Greeks had the Hero engine but it took an Englishman 600 years later to build a steam engine that could do real work.
But it took centuries of trial and error to get the D Cell we take for granted these days.
Useable solutions that can be plopped in place take many years of unglamorous hours heartburn and pain in the tail. Most of the stuff I've posted in What to do until the fusor jackpot hits took 2 decades of fiddling to come up with the right stuff. Only now am I reaping the harvest of thousands of hours spent in the seventies and eighties developing replacement systems. I expect fusors to do the same. Ideas are only the start....theories are ideas that sorta work...realities are what you are fighting....engineering is what happens when an idea affects reality to get a desired result. Finally the difficult part is enculturation
of the engineering into everyday society. Don't get the wild notion that a workable solution will be adopted with open arms....It took almost a hundred years for the tin lizzy to become the auto of today.
Happy Fusoring!
Larry Leins
Fusor Tech
Brilliance will only go so far you know.
Look how long it took to get a workable solar panel.
You do realise the Egyptians invented the first battery.
The Greeks had the Hero engine but it took an Englishman 600 years later to build a steam engine that could do real work.
But it took centuries of trial and error to get the D Cell we take for granted these days.
Useable solutions that can be plopped in place take many years of unglamorous hours heartburn and pain in the tail. Most of the stuff I've posted in What to do until the fusor jackpot hits took 2 decades of fiddling to come up with the right stuff. Only now am I reaping the harvest of thousands of hours spent in the seventies and eighties developing replacement systems. I expect fusors to do the same. Ideas are only the start....theories are ideas that sorta work...realities are what you are fighting....engineering is what happens when an idea affects reality to get a desired result. Finally the difficult part is enculturation
of the engineering into everyday society. Don't get the wild notion that a workable solution will be adopted with open arms....It took almost a hundred years for the tin lizzy to become the auto of today.
Happy Fusoring!
Larry Leins
Fusor Tech
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davidtrimmell
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Re: Ideas, theories, realities, engineering
This is a interesting conversation and reminds me of a quote I have from NIkola Tesla:
"Many a would-be discoverer, failing in his efforts, has felt the regret to have been born at a time when everything has been already accomplished and nothing is left to be done. This erroneous impression that, as we are advancing, the possibilities of invention are being exhausted, is not uncommon. In reality it is just the opposite. Spenser has conveyed the right idea when he likened civilization to the sphere of light which a lamp throws out in darkness. The brighter the lamp and the larger the sphere the greater is its dark boundary. It is paradoxical, yet true, to say, that the more we know the more ignorant we become in the absolute sense, for it is only through enlightenment that we become conscious of our limitations."
- Nikola Tesla "The Wonder World To Be Created By Electricity"
Manufacturer's Record, September 9, 1915
Regards,
David Trimmell
"Many a would-be discoverer, failing in his efforts, has felt the regret to have been born at a time when everything has been already accomplished and nothing is left to be done. This erroneous impression that, as we are advancing, the possibilities of invention are being exhausted, is not uncommon. In reality it is just the opposite. Spenser has conveyed the right idea when he likened civilization to the sphere of light which a lamp throws out in darkness. The brighter the lamp and the larger the sphere the greater is its dark boundary. It is paradoxical, yet true, to say, that the more we know the more ignorant we become in the absolute sense, for it is only through enlightenment that we become conscious of our limitations."
- Nikola Tesla "The Wonder World To Be Created By Electricity"
Manufacturer's Record, September 9, 1915
Regards,
David Trimmell
Re: Ideas, theories, realities, engineering
ehhh.....
...Terrance McKenna said, once, to the best of my knowledge, "nature is a novelty conserving engine".
Ofcourse, this is absurd, ..not in the classical sense but rather, 'that nature is an intelligent manifestation.'
I might say, what an absurd realty to believe in , that ," is not pleasing to us. "
Darius
...Terrance McKenna said, once, to the best of my knowledge, "nature is a novelty conserving engine".
Ofcourse, this is absurd, ..not in the classical sense but rather, 'that nature is an intelligent manifestation.'
I might say, what an absurd realty to believe in , that ," is not pleasing to us. "
Darius
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Todd Massure
- Posts: 443
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:38 am
- Real name: Todd Massure
Re: Ideas, theories, realities, engineering
You know what, I regretted writing that part about most of the simple things being already invented. I do feel like most of the basic need type things for every day living have been addressed, but there are endless new realms and also improvements for everything we know, I do maintain however, that in this day it usually takes more creativity and labor to come up with something genuinely earth shaking than it was in the past.
To Larry's post; yes there is definitely no substitute for the often tedious trial and error and experimentation the whole "1% inspiration and 99% perspiration" usually holds true.
To Larry's post; yes there is definitely no substitute for the often tedious trial and error and experimentation the whole "1% inspiration and 99% perspiration" usually holds true.
Re: Ideas, theories, realities, engineering
well...i am starting to understand that anything worth trying is a worthless endeavor. Anything that needs to be, will be done anyway. It's an insult to humanity to attribute any kind of seriousness to endeavors of pure delight. That is not what being serious is for. But, alas, ...the world we live in....and the enuermous inconsistencies we continue to formulate into those logical packages of reason weight and measure.
words of a lonely man.....
ps. to say it another way, rather posed as a question, why do we put effort into entertainig ourselves? Shouldn't the entertainment be obviously laid out for us? How ridiculous ....I think. life is simple, not difficult....what idiot thought up of codified science anyway....one that lacked imagination.....De-carte was inspired by an angel....but nobody was taught this as a proper impetus....right along with a white Jesus....what idiots. And what idiots we have become
one more thing...waiting and looking for an inspired person, one to see the way through, if not for everybody than just for me. Get fusing!
Darius
words of a lonely man.....
ps. to say it another way, rather posed as a question, why do we put effort into entertainig ourselves? Shouldn't the entertainment be obviously laid out for us? How ridiculous ....I think. life is simple, not difficult....what idiot thought up of codified science anyway....one that lacked imagination.....De-carte was inspired by an angel....but nobody was taught this as a proper impetus....right along with a white Jesus....what idiots. And what idiots we have become
one more thing...waiting and looking for an inspired person, one to see the way through, if not for everybody than just for me. Get fusing!
Darius