Hearing Radiation

This area is for discussions involving any fusion related radiation metrology issues. Neutrons are the key signature of fusion, but other radiations are of interest to the amateur fusioneer as well.
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Frank Sanns
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Re: Hearing Radiation

Post by Frank Sanns » Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:34 pm

Hey Pascal,

Last night I gave myself a crash course in C++. I think I have it figured out how to sense when a signal is coming in then finding its maximum amplitude and integrating the area under the curve for a fixed (or user input) period of time based on the detector. What I am not sure about is how to get the data in. I see some pre written programs to scan for USB ports but this is all new to me and I am not sure if it is better to get the data from a DAQ or from input from a soundcard as Steven's Gamma Spec unit does. Any thoughts on the front end of this? Thanks.

Frank Sanns

Pascal Dennerly wrote:
> I may not know radiation measurement but I DO know C++ - it's my day job. I'm happy to lend a hand if you need it. Even if it's just looking at one of those silly edge-case bugs that causes you pull your hair out.

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Re: Hearing Radiation

Post by bpaddock » Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:22 pm

> What I am not sure about is how to get the data in. I see some pre written programs to scan for USB ports but this is all new to me and I am not sure if it is better to get the data from a DAQ or from input from a soundcard as Steven's Gamma Spec unit does. Any thoughts on the front end of this?
DAQ will go down to DC, few unmodified sound cards will.

I'd have to look up the input impedance of a sound card input.
For the DAQ it depends on the model. Some of the older ones were quite low in the 50k range.
Some of the low cost current ones are in the 2M range, with the higher end ones approaching 10M getting on par with your typical volt meter.

So it comes down to what is your source impedance and your source frequency range as to picking one.

As to USB scanning is usually unnecessary, and sometimes a bad idea, as you can locate the device by the USB ID in the registry. The exact method varies a bit with the USB device type. This program is helpful for figuring out such things: http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/usb_devices_view.html

If I knew exactly what hardware you had and what software you are using for development I might be able to give better advice. I do this stuff for the Day Job.

I'll be down in your area Mid-December, maybe we can get together then?

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Frank Sanns
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Re: Hearing Radiation

Post by Frank Sanns » Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:45 am

Hi Bob,

Thanks. If the program were just for me, I would not need to scan to find the USB ID and I could get it on my own but I am trying to make a generic program that could be run by others. That is also the reason I was looking at either sound card input or a DAQ type device. Guess either way a preamp or a DAQ would need to be purchased.

Let me know when you will be down this way and we can talk and I can run a fusor experiment when you are down. I do have one trip coming up but it is short and hopefully will not interfere.

Frank Sanns

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Re: Hearing Radiation

Post by bpaddock » Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:55 pm

> Thanks. If the program were just for me, I would not need to scan to find the USB ID and I could get it on my own but I am trying to make a generic program that could be run by others. That is also the reason I was looking at either sound card input or a DAQ type device. Guess either way a preamp or a DAQ would need to be purchased.
Okay. If anyone has an interest in external USB based sound card the SignalLink,
is popular with the Hams. Both the input and output are transformer isolated to avoid ground loops.

http://nuwen.net/mingw.html is a good development library for Windows, and the code can be made cross platform. Take a look at the SDL library http://wiki.libsdl.org/moin.cgi/CategoryAudio and the Audacity Source Code http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/source for items that should help you out with the audio related items.

> Let me know when you will be down this way and we can talk

I'll send you an email with the details.

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Re: Hearing Radiation

Post by Steven Sesselmann » Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:41 am

Frank,

I response to the Swedish team, marek Dolleiser has released PRA version 7, with sound output feature.

Pretty cool for the first 30 seconds, fortunately you can just hit the space bar to turn it off.

http://www.physics.usyd.edu.au/~marek/pra/index.html

Steven
http://www.gammaspectacular.com - Gamma Spectrometry Systems
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Steven_Sesselmann - Various papers and patents on RG

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Re: Hearing Radiation

Post by Brian_Gage » Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:51 am

Thanks for posting this latest about PRA Steven. I'll download and try out Marek's new handiwork.
Regards

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Steven Sesselmann
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Re: Hearing Radiation

Post by Steven Sesselmann » Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:40 am

This new audio feature in PRA is going to prove very useful for neutron counting in the lab. When we are running our fusors we are often too busy adjusting the vacuum valves and the voltage, to look at the rate meter. Just imagine being able to hear the ping of a neutrons, not just a click, but a high frequency sound that gives you confidence that it is indeed a neutron.

I hooked up my Victoreen B10 tube straight to a GS-1100A at 1000V with no other electronics, and set the discriminator level in PRA above the gamma background, and I could hear a background neutron ping in my detector about once a minute.

As always with Marek's software, the programs are small, the functions are simple and they work.

Steven

Bee Research
http://www.gammaspectacular.com - Gamma Spectrometry Systems
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Steven_Sesselmann - Various papers and patents on RG

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