Geiger Counter Possession = JAIL

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Mark Rowley
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Geiger Counter Possession = JAIL

Post by Mark Rowley » Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:49 pm

What a bunch of moronic stupidity! New York is passing a law to outlaw geiger counters and any other type of detection equipment from the general population. This is not a joke. Read on, you will be quite amazed.

The author of the law even says people NEED TO GO TO JAIL if they are caught with one.

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Re: Geiger Counter Possession = JAIL

Post by Jon Rosenstiel » Sun Jan 27, 2008 7:59 pm


JohnCuthbert
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Re: Geiger Counter Possession = JAIL

Post by JohnCuthbert » Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:49 pm

A better solution would be free, government-calibrated geigers for everyone who wants one. That way you don't get false alarms because people have accurate detectors and, if there is a dirty bomb, you have lots of people in place who can do monitoring and let you know the real extent of the problem.
Just what sort of idiot dreams up ideas like banning geigers?

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Frank Sanns
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Re: Geiger Counter Possession = JAIL

Post by Frank Sanns » Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:01 am

In NY and other some other areas it is already illegal to recieve certain E & M energy signals. A radar detector in the 10 Ghz, 24,Ghz, 33Ghz, and ~400Thz so a presedence is already set so is 800-900mhz cell and soft x-rays start just a little higher in photon frequency.

Other recieving devices like hand held recievers and scanners are also illegal in NY. Stranger things have happened.

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Re: Geiger Counter Possession = JAIL

Post by mtemple » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:17 pm

They may have some difficulty reconciling that law when every cell phone is a radiation detector:

http://news.uns.purdue.edu/x/2008a/0801 ... clear.html

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Frank Sanns
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Re: Geiger Counter Possession = JAIL

Post by Frank Sanns » Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:29 pm

This is another example of money and time gone bad. Cell phone detectors would never work for a variety of reasons.

For one, detecting bomb grade materials with a crude geiger counter is futile. One needs to know what they are looking for. Complicating the detection would be the HUGE number of false alarms. There are so many sources of rad that the detectors would be constantly going off.

With just my pocket detector and a trip to just about any public place, the thing goes off daily. People that have had nuclear medicine tests are detectable at many times the distance of the hotest U rocks or nuke materials. These people are everywhere. Can you imagine the flood of false alarms that there would be? On a single day in a local casino that had ~500 people, I found six people that were HOT and one that was blazing away from over 40 feet away. Ten nukes collectively would not have been spewing out that much rad. Sure casks of ultra hot rad waste could be detected but big brother already knows were they are and where they are going.

This is another one of those ideas that sounds good on paper.

Frank S.

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Richard Hull
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Re: Geiger Counter Possession = JAIL

Post by Richard Hull » Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:23 pm

My major objection is that it would deny the right of a citizen to secure their own information and collect their own data. This would act to check on government reports of radiation levels in time of emergency. (The powers that be could say all is well or that the rad levels are tolerable when they are not in order to simply calm the doomed masses.

In time of emergency the government's averaged readings would certainly not take in "hotspots". A personal counter would alert the user to such areas and allow them to seek out safer zones to reduce exposure.

This harkens back to the simple civil defense kits and methodolgies of the cold war. Shelters had three types of rad detection gear on hand so that local shelters could form their own safe zones and reliably report levels to authorites.

Richard Hull
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Re: Geiger Counter Possession = JAIL

Post by DaveC » Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:03 pm

Well, stupidity abounds.... no region is free of it....It's the universal contaminant.

The only slack you can cut for NY is that they were one of the places that took the hit on 9/11 and that DOES count for something.

To my way of thinking, if you can outlaw radar detectors in automobiles, on the premise that police will not be able to catch speeders, and etc... blah, blah, blah., then it seems to follow that radiation detectors could also be outlawed on the similar premise that you would only have a G-M counter if you were doing "something" illegal with radioactivity. Sounds a lot like the gun control mentality, doesn't it?

So, while moronic, this form of legislative reasoning sounds real good.

The basic Freedom of Information Act probably has bearing on restricting the Government's ability to put this kind of legislation into effect.

If the ACLU wanted to get into something useful, here's a fight to join. The news business, should also be able to see this as a good Op-Ed page interest stoker. In so doing, the public awareness (consciousness?) on radiation issues could possibly be raised and some of the many erroneous perceptions corrected.

I recall, with amusement a moderately heated "discussion" around the dinner table with a sibling and spouse on exactly this issue... Despite being highly educated, professional people, their view was: "Why does a law abiding citizen need a radar detector?"

My point of view was, first because there's no harm in knowing when you are being checked,by radar, whatever your speed. And secondly, who knows what the police are actually doing when they stop you and claim to have clocked you on
"radar". If the PD's, are on the up and up, they should have no qualms about being checked out, by the people they serve.

This country is full of places where local law enforcement plays games with public trust to collect fines. To my mind these sorts should be rounded up and sent to jail, just like any other thief and robber. Raising the standards of fairness, decency justice and accountability, goes with legitimate expectations of high(er) pay.

Just my rant for Monday......Also a Thank You to Mark for the heads up.

Dave Cooper

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Re: Geiger Counter Possession = JAIL

Post by JohnCuthbert » Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:31 pm

As far as I can see it's a lot worse than gun control.
Limiting people's access to radioactive materials so they can't kill people a la Litvinyenko is like gun control. It has problems but it should work in principle.

Limiting people's access to detectors is like removing the regulations prohibiting carrying concealed weapons. It stops people finding out if the man they see in the street is a radiation hazard. This means he cannot be spotted by the authorities (who will never have the resources to check everyone) until he starts killing people.

Also, whether you like it or not, guns are for killing people, that's the basic idea behind the design. Controlling access to something that's dangerous might be politically unacceptable, it might be impractical, but in theory, it reduces the number of people who get killed. I know you can kill someone perfectly well with a hammer but it's a lot more difficult to go on a killing spree with a hammer than with a machine gun.

How, exactly, do you kill someone with a geiger counter?

It seems to me to be about a zillion times less sensible than gun control.
On the other hand...
There are real reasons for and against gun control.
There are no valid reasons in favour of this proposed legislation.
Let's not get the 2 ideas mixed up.

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Re: Geiger Counter Possession = JAIL

Post by MSimon » Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:15 am

Only evil people use guns for killing. The rest of us use them for self defense.

I think this is all about the new Miranda warnings police are required to give:

You have the right to remain stupid, everything we can manage will be used against you....

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